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Author Topic: I want to make something. but i never made anything handmade before.  (Read 4424 times)
toxickun
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« on: April 06, 2010, 06:44:49 am »

so tell me what can i make as a beginner :3. i want to work with only steam power.
i might not know where to get the material either so i hope you can help me with that too. . .
[oh and did i mention this is my first time making anything?]
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...wth is a signature ._.
[sorry for my fail in grammar]
rovingjack
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« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2010, 09:20:43 am »

liar! I know you made macaroni noodle art when you were little for your mother in art class. So um, why don't you make another picture frame out of hardware instead. and whenyou got that worked out look at some of the other parts available in the hardware store and ponder what you could do with that.
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sebastian Inkerman
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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2010, 11:49:43 am »

I would say that it is a trifle ambitious to work with steam when you have no experience of and resulting dangers relating to it. As Mr. Jack mentioned. Perhaps starting a little smaller would be a good idea. Make the picture frame, make a costume or an accessory. To be honest, it doesn't have to be "steam powered". You can work wonders with concealed electric motors to give the impression if the thing that you'd like to make needs to be "steam" driven. I would suggest that most people don't work with steam powered contraptions here, it's more about the finished look and the overall intent.

As a first project, (and this is by no means a universal opinion) why not try your hand at a pair of goggles?

If you can't be dissuaded from actual steam work, join a local builders group. You might find help from engineer's groups, or possibly train enthusiasts. They will have the safety measures in place and the rigourous testing that this sort of discipline demands. As someone said on another thread of yours, a boiler explosion is not a pretty sight, particularly for those that are not standing outside the blast radius.
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sidecar_jon
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« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2010, 04:05:55 pm »

a pop pop boat is steam powered in its most basic and safe form, and its quite pleasing too...some good simple metal workign skills to make one. small tube bending and soldering....
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Mr. Boltneck
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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2010, 06:28:34 pm »

My 2-cents-worth: I'm not sure whereabouts you are, but as your profile says you are college age, I would recommend that you look into some basic shop classes. When I was an engineering undergrad, these were  required courses, and I tended to work on personal projects during open shop hours as well. Or look for local community college shop classes, or see if some sort of outfit like TechShop operates in your area.
This is always a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem. Until you learn some useful working methods, you aren't likely to have any sense of proportion or difficulty about a project, but until you start making things, it is hard to learn working methods. So a class in almost anything—jewelry, welding, machine shop, carpentry, metal-smithing/foundry arts—is a useful starting point. Plus you will have the chance to pick up transferrable working habits, including basic shop safety, tool care, and figuring out the order of operations in a project.
Also, any mistakes you make with basic tools and techniques are less likely to result in anything worse than adhesive bandages and ice can repair. We all slip, and it never goes away 100%, but one gets better with practice, and it's good to get the worst of it out of your system before you move up to, say, molten brass, or operating a large Bridgeport milling machine, where the potential for spectacular calamity is much greater.
If you must build a steam device right now, then a reasonable place to start is a version of the Hero Engine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero%27s_engine. These are often used as Shop 101 projects, since they move, are kind of a blast, have some interesting history, and, above all, are fairly safe to operate, as the boiler is open, and running under low-pressure conditions. When I was a kid, you could build them from aluminum 35mm film containers, which had threaded lids, but those are probably collector's items now. However, a well stocked hardware store can almost certainly supply everything to build one now.
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Endeavour Cull
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« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2010, 07:32:19 pm »

I think one can not make a steam engine and boilers and stuff if you have not made the slightest attempt on making something else by hand ever.
By now you have learned what an exploding boiler can do.

I should start with something else if i was you (something without steam) otherwise you will probably have a bad experience. (That issue has already been spoke off in one of your earlier topics).

Just pick something that you like and make it a bit steamier and machine-like with gears and brass/bronze paint and pieces.

You should train yourself in hammering nails, gluing, painting, filing, (maybe some drilling for the advanced diy-er) and screw in some screws.
Also a very important skill is a keen eye for useful bits and pieces that can be used for your creative activity.

You can take some bits and pieces and just try looking and fitting them together to your liking and glue them on. If you know what you find beautiful or cool or whatever then it fits together sooner or later.

Don't get me wrong, but steam is a no go if you haven't got experience with metalworking and a good teacher to watch your steam adventures.
 Smiley
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JingleJoe
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« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2010, 12:17:10 am »

I would say that it is a trifle ambitious to work with steam when you have no experience of and resulting dangers relating to it.
I want to stress this, if you work with steam power you are probably going to kill yourself, the steam engine or both.
Learn more before you do anything with steam power.


I concur with all else said here! Good advice chaps.
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Narsil
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« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2010, 01:10:28 am »


Really with learning any type of practical skill you need to take things in logical stages and at a realistic pace. Some people will pick things up more quickly than others but there are certain basics that you need to get familiar with before anything else.

There are basic skills which are common to virtually all making processes like basic workshop housekeeping and safety and the process of designing and organising a project.

Whenever you attempt something new you need to make an assessment of what the potential dangers and practical problems are, this goes for absolutely everything and everybody, if you don't know or aren't sure then find out from a reputable source before you do anything else. Sometimes this will be a trivial process other time it can be a complex technical undertaking in itself.

There are lots of good starting disciplines with projects which are achievable for the novice but steam engineering is not one of them.

If steam is the direction you want to head in then its probably best to start with metalwork projects. Get to grips with basic techniques like accurate marking out, hand filing, drilling, fitting and mechanical fastenings. Getting these basics right from the start will stand you in very good stead for more advanced stuff and the tools and materials required are relatively inexpensive.

Bear in mind that a lot of designing/making is about building up a feel for materials and hand-eye coordination and this will transfer to more complex processes, not to mention the planning and visualisation skills you will require.

The ability to draw fluently will help with almost every making process and is indispensable for any kind of creative discipline.

If you start with the basics and aim for the best possible execution you should progress quickly and ultimately go further than if you try to short circuit the process by looking for an easy route to leap ahead.

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A man of eighty has outlived probably three new schools of painting, two of architecture and poetry and a hundred in dress.
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toxickun
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« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2010, 10:53:29 am »

.... I think we dont have hardware stores in this era now theses days x-x
... Or is home depo considered a hardware store?
Where can i join a local builders group in los angles?
Ive have been thinking about a pop steam boat thing like sidecar_jon  said....
but im kind of confused on what i need to collect and build.
[for example how can i put a heat source in which wont burn the entire project down....]
yes i am in a collage age and i did mention of taking a mechanical class...
oh i forgot to mention i did had a woodworking shop class in high school. and finished the class.. (although my hammering sucks  Undecided)
.... idk if theirs anybody in my community that works with steam anymore...
i... think i understand what to do now... i just need to learn basic metal working and other classes before i can use steam..]
(But you know when i said somehting about steam powered stuff i dident mean a full scale car or anything x-x)
*Just toys... in a way... or something that can power a electronic device like my radio...]



(yes i know my grammar is horrible but bare with me im still learning)
... I want to make goggles right now....... if only i know how to make one and where to obtain parts x-x
the main is parts... like hell as if im gonna walk stright to a store with gears and a bunch of old parts sitting their waiting to be bought...

[can someone tell me all of the classes i need to learn before i can do steam engineering?]


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toxickun
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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2010, 11:29:26 am »

..or better yet.. a steamboat.. [so ill have something to play when im bored =w=]
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Endeavour Cull
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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2010, 12:00:51 pm »

Dear toxicgun.

Even small scale projects are quite complicated.

Maybe this is a start for you.
Part 1 Build a Putt PuttPop Pop Steam Boat Intro 1


and here some more:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+make+pop+pop+boats&aq=0msx

Internet is a useful guide and tool also.
The Los Angeles region is quite big so you should do a Google search on metal workshops for yourself.
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toxickun
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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2010, 12:06:31 pm »

ohhhhhhh *eyes glittered* thank you XD
...and its not like i can go waltz into a metal shop in la x-x
......
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Zwack
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« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2010, 02:38:52 pm »

TechShop has all sorts of fabrication tools and classes available... I don't know if/when there will be one in your area.

A quick Google search for "Hardware Store Los Angeles" shows that Yelp has reviews of 284 businesses, and Google points out at least two of interest in the top seven businesses...

Emil's Hardware
Liz's Antique Hardware

You might also look around Architectural Salvage places for inspiring odds and ends...
Olde Good Things

I have no experience with any of these businesses, but that should give you a start...

Z.
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Endeavour Cull
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« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2010, 02:42:04 pm »

You're welcome.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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toxickun
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« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2010, 02:50:36 pm »

excellent now i have a lead to parts Tongue
[i live in bell gardens so its kind of far to los angles...]
but finnely i have a lead to a existing hardware store XD


<---currently making a pop pop boat.
OMG IM FINNELY MAKING SOMETHING!!
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Mr. Boltneck
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« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2010, 05:03:18 pm »

http://makezine.com/magazine/
http://makezine.com/community/
http://blog.makezine.com/

And just for starters, this guy is in your part of the state, or at least his store's within driving distance: http://www.misterjalopy.com/
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toxickun
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« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2010, 05:13:36 pm »

:/. . .err ok..?
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sidecar_jon
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« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2010, 05:57:34 pm »

Popop boats are so easy even i made one!. Or at least a none poping sort. Its just a coil of tube and a more or less boat hull, and a candle under the coil with a small can round it to hide it from the wind. And its a genuine steam jet boat!... Just remember to utilise anything you can find in the shops, tin cans etc and plumbing pipes...you cant blow yourself up and the worst that'll happen is you get a bit of finger burn or it sinks..for a hull how about a sardine can small bore pipes available at model shops etc...
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 05:59:16 pm by sidecar_jon » Logged
toxickun
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« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2010, 06:22:34 pm »

...I don't think that a toy like that would destroy a house x-x
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Narsil
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« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2010, 06:33:28 pm »

.... I think we dont have hardware stores in this era now theses days x-x
... Or is home depo considered a hardware store?
Where can i join a local builders group in los angles?
Ive have been thinking about a pop steam boat thing like sidecar_jon  said....
but im kind of confused on what i need to collect and build.
[for example how can i put a heat source in which wont burn the entire project down....]
yes i am in a collage age and i did mention of taking a mechanical class...
oh i forgot to mention i did had a woodworking shop class in high school. and finished the class.. (although my hammering sucks  Undecided)
.... idk if theirs anybody in my community that works with steam anymore...
i... think i understand what to do now... i just need to learn basic metal working and other classes before i can use steam..]
(But you know when i said somehting about steam powered stuff i dident mean a full scale car or anything x-x)
*Just toys... in a way... or something that can power a electronic device like my radio...]



(yes i know my grammar is horrible but bare with me im still learning)
... I want to make goggles right now....... if only i know how to make one and where to obtain parts x-x
the main is parts... like hell as if im gonna walk stright to a store with gears and a bunch of old parts sitting their waiting to be bought...

[can someone tell me all of the classes i need to learn before i can do steam engineering?]




As a general overview the skills you need for engineering in general and steam in particular are as follows

General engineering - theory

Obviously you don't need an engineering degree before you can start making stuff but having a sound theoretical knowledge will make learning practical skills easier and make things make more sense. If you want to progress to designing working machines and complex load bearing structures then theoretical knowledge becomes more and more important.

-Maths: really you need a decent grasp of at least high school maths if you're ever going to design anything that works. There are a lot of calculations in engineering design and its enormously useful to be able to do at least back of an envelope calculations. Key areas are vector mechanics, trigonometry, geometry, algebra, calculus and statistics. Obviously the more complex and ambitious your designs become the more rigorous and detailed your calculations need to be.

-Physics: a broad knowledge of physics is also invaluable and goes hand in hand with maths, Mechanics is obviously central to engineering.

-Thermodynamics: absolutely essential for understanding anything to do with steam.

-Chemistry: a background knowledge of practical chemistry is useful but not essential

-Materials: another core engineering subject, you definitely need a good practical knowledge of how different materials behave and why.

Practical

In mechanical engineering metal is pretty much the dominant material but you;re also likely to come across wood, plastics, composites and various other materials.

The first thing to learn is to get a basic familiarity with working with basic hand tools, files, hammers,  punches, scribers etc , simple techniques like accurate marking and measuring, working from technical drawings and starting to build basic mechanical skills and an effective and safe way of working.

Really the best way to get started is to take a good metalwork class, what gets taught in schools may or may not be good depending on who's teaching it, evening classes might be a good bet.

Some of the broad disciplines relevant to steam engineering as as follows:

-bench fitting: precise fitting of components using mostly hand tools, drilling, tapping, fling, linishing, lapping etc.

-machining: lathes, milling machines, pillar drills, grinders etc.

-forging: hot shaping of metals using hammers or presses and dies.

-heat treating.

-casting: pouring molten metal into moulds.

-welding and fabrication.

I'd recommend The Complete Modern Blacksmith  by Alexander G. Weygers as a good book for a general overview of metalworking techniques.

 

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toxickun
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« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2010, 06:57:14 pm »

wow....theirs so many things i need to do....
*sighs* T.T
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 07:09:52 pm by toxickun » Logged
sidecar_jon
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« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2010, 07:47:11 pm »

wow....theirs so many things i need to do....
*sighs* T.T

Narrr just make something, you'll find out things as you need to...
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rovingjack
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« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2010, 07:52:17 pm »

...I don't think that a toy like that would destroy a house x-x

Wow you really are new to this. The goal is to FIND a way to destroy a house with a toy like that.  Grin

Once you make a pop po boat you can then use the candle, tubeing, cup of water idea to try new experiments. Like setting it on a stand with one end of tubing in the water and the other pointed in another direction at a pinwheel hooked up to paper autonoma toys (think of those old weather vane type yard decorations that move via wind power, or hand cranked desktop moving toys).

It might work and might not but with this setup it's relatively safe to experiment with trying new ways to use the existing parts. Just try to remember: Fire hot, flaming oil really hurt, hot metal burn skin, little fire become big fire in hurry.

Also wear eye protection, you won't at first but by the second or third accidental thing in your eye you'll catch on. "Oh but I'm only quickly grinding off the tip of this wire I don't need... ouch!" Plus it just looks more madsciencey or crazed engineer as the case may be if you put on goggles a lab coat and big gloves.

oh and protect your five: safty glasses, ear plugs, dust mask, vent fan, gloves. don't needlessly expose those senses to hazards, like looking at lasers or pointing a steam jet into your face.
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Endeavour Cull
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« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2010, 08:21:30 pm »

...........

It might work and might not but with this setup it's relatively safe to experiment with trying new ways to use the existing parts. Just try to remember: Fire hot, flaming oil really hurt, hot metal burn skin, little fire become big fire in hurry.

Also wear eye protection, you won't at first but by the second or third accidental thing in your eye you'll catch on. "Oh but I'm only quickly grinding off the tip of this wire I don't need... ouch!" Plus it just looks more madsciencey or crazed engineer as the case may be if you put on goggles a lab coat and big gloves.

oh and protect your five: safty glasses, ear plugs, dust mask, vent fan, gloves. don't needlessly expose those senses to hazards, like looking at lasers or pointing a steam jet into your face.

How could we almost forget lesson no. one: SAFETY FIRST.  Embarrassed

And about oil and fire. Never try to put out an oil that's burning by pouring water over it. It becomes a flash fire and you will get burnwounds from that.

A little personal question if you don't mind. Don't you have parents, relatives, friends, adults that you can ask for some advice and guidance?

and what are the tools you have and can use.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 08:25:49 pm by Endeavour Cull » Logged
Mr. Boltneck
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« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2010, 10:47:19 pm »

Good point: wear eye protection, roll up long sleeves, and tie back long hair. Know where you can find the fire extinguisher. Later, you may find yourself extending your safety knowledge to such subjects as knowing what chlorine gas looks like, and understanding what not to do with cyanides. These last two are not frivolous, by the way, but are drawn from experience.
Oh, and my earlier post, in case you found it inscrutable, was a set of URLs to the MAKE community, and to one of its exemplars in your area, Mr. Jalopy. This should help you find project ideas, possible shop facilities, and other real-world stuff. MAKE is a very good resource.
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