bleh someone told me to come here =w=

[Laserpunk]

Just because I'm not "Steampunk" dose not mean I have not participated in other similar groups. I just like to be diversified, and I don't fly other people's flags. I fly my own. I find it suffocating to be categorized in just  one group. I'm still debating about your group. I've read piles of posts, and I don't see too much humor. Maybe the Victorians didn't laugh...who knows. Might have been because  of their rotted teeth, and foul odor from not washing for a week, and using who knows what for toilet paper. BTW do you guys use toilet paper? Because that's not Steampunk LOL (Humor, wink, wink)

I agree with you completely about your take on the situation. I don't agree with 10 people relentlessly shoving their opinions down a n00bs throat just because he is different. Who is going to want to stay after that? If you want to attract people to your craft, you can't keep pouncing people. You may have a large membership, but your daily average of visiting members is not that high.

About deleting the thread, its only an opinion. And by the looks of the forum everyone is entitled to their opinion. LOL (More humor)

[TimeTinker]

Thank you for your reasoned reply.

I fear you may have misinterpreted my first sentence.

Whilst you are totally entitled to your own opinions and are as welcome to air your views as anyone else you are also subject to responses and returns from other people here.  I intended to make it clear that it was perhaps unreasonable for you to make value laden statements and pontifications about the goings on here (indeed criticising just that sort of attitude) when you have had little time to "absorb forum etiquette yourself".  Is that not akin to a "pot calling the kettle black?"

That is what I meant by "ripe".  I apologise if I was not clear enough in my posting.

I see no evidence for

10 people relentlessly shoving their opinions down a n00bs throat just because he is different

and there are many people trying to be encouraging at the same time.  Some people are commenting quite strongly but I cannot say it is purely some form of phobia against difference but is in reality a drive to make sure a new member is able to join in.

It must also be noted that although someone may start a thread they do not actually own it.  We will discuss things as they meander just like any conversation.  This topic has been moved to textual purely because the general issues we are discussing now are not Toxickun and his posts but the fundamentals of clear communication on the boards.

There is no compulsion to conform. Steampunk by its very nature attracts individuals who like to be diversified.  As it grows in popularity it is also attracting people who want to identify with the group.  By ensuring that people can communicate and participate fully we are encouraging them to maintain their individuality.

[darkshines]

I haven't typed anything in this thread yet because I felt like I had nothing to say, but please do not juge everyone on this forum by what has been said to this new poster. I am certainly not mean or judgemental (or at least I try not to be), but you must understand that new posters make threads like this REGULARLY. It gets really old, really fast. How many times can we answer questions like "where can I buy steampunk clothes", "how to I make my Nerf gun look old" or "so like, is this 1970s plastic INSERT NOUN HERE steampunk?". It just gets boring. Its common etiquette, when joining a forum, to find an introduction thread, mooch around and lurk for a bit, and contribute in a polite, enthusiastic and poisitive manner, at least, thats the general rule here. To start a thread that seems almost aggressive, to have such a nonchanlant, rude manner and to not even care for the genre makes it seem to me that perhaps some people shouldn;t even be here to start with. I came to this forum via Facebook after finding out that "ah, steampunk! so THATS what I am!" after dressing like this all my life, reading the books I do, relentless creating and generally living my life to its fullest.

For some people who post here, SP isn;t a fashion, it isn;t something they have to fit into, or get instructions on, it is the way we just are. I am not suggesting I speak for anyone else but myself here but I am damn proud to be the person I am, to hold the values I belief in and to be SP, as I have since I was a child, and will continue to be till the day I die. If anyone doesn;t like it, they don;t have to read my posts or associate themselves with me, but hating me, my friends, this forum or who we are is YOUR opinion, YOUR preference and YOUR perspective, which you are entitled to.

In summary, if you don't like it, no-one is keeping you here, but I do think this thread is wraught with misunderstandings and I think everyone has got off on the wrong foot.

[jringling]

For some people who post here, SP isn;t a fashion, it isn;t something they have to fit into, or get instructions on, it is the way we just are. I am not suggesting I speak for anyone else but myself here but I am damn proud to be the person I am, to hold the values I belief in and to be SP, as I have since I was a child, and will continue to be till the day I die. If anyone doesn;t like it, they don;t have to read my posts or associate themselves with me, but hating me, my friends, this forum or who we are is YOUR opinion, YOUR preference and YOUR perspective, which you are entitled to.

This is the best bit of writing I have read on the forum in quite sometime. Thank you darkshines.

[Airship Cyborg]

I also haven't posted, but I think that I should adress one point. At one point in the topic, the Original Poster was reffered to a "teenager" which was used as a derogative term. I find fault in that. Just because someone is a teenager does not make them have predetermined habits. Case in point, I am at least semi-coherent, and have a fairly good vocabulary. I am fourteen. I know that there is a stereotype for teenagers, but many don't conform to this.

As to my belief, I think that Toxickun is probably genuine, but needs quite a bit more experince before he could be a really productive member of the community. Brassgoggles is full of abnormally intelligent people, and one needs to be predisposed towards debate and intelligent conversation. I personally don't believe Toxickun is ready for that.

[Ginny Blundy]

The spoken equivalent to bad spelling, most be sloppy pronunciation. And the equivalent to poor grammar, could very well be failing to pause between sentences.

I think you meant must, not most. Also, commas are a subject of debate in writing, but according to the standards where I work you are using entirely too many commas.

OK, see how completely obnoxious that was for me to do? That's what's silly about this whole "write at your very best level" conversation. Furthermore, regardless of a typo and differences in opinion on punctuation, I can understand what you were communicating. That's what's truly important.

My job involves writing and editing all day. When I come to this forum, I am more casual in my writing than I am at work. I really don't expect anything else from anyone else, as long as we are communicating clearly enough to understand one another.

That will also be the last time I ever point out an error to someone on this forum. Partly that's because error checking is part of what I get paid for, and you good folks are not paying me.  Mostly it's because I just don't like going around nit-picking someone's grammar, spelling, and writing style in a social setting. I only did it here because I had a point to make, and even doing it for that reason made me a bit queasy.

[Capt. Dirigible]

Hey, laserpunk...are you only enthusiastic about red lasers? I just wondered as you describe yourself (below your avatar) as a 'rouge laser enthusiast'

Or should that be 'rogue'? 


Picky and unneccesary? Or constructive and educational?

Answers on a postcard to the usual address.

[Laserpunk]

Hey, laserpunk...are you only enthusiastic about red lasers? I just wondered as you describe yourself (below your avatar) as a 'rouge laser enthusiast'

Or should that be 'rogue'?  


Picky and unneccesary? Or constructive and educational?

Answers on a postcard to the usual address.

You are correct, it should be rogue. I cant spell, and I guess that's why I get heated at threads like this. I'm far from stupid, I just didn't have the proper schooling, I had to work instead. This does not reflect on my intellect.

BTW unneccesary is spelled unnecessary LOL...or was that a pun? Hard to tell with British humor.

I don't hate you guys, I don't know where you got that from. And believe me I know your frustration. The laser forum that I help moderate gets literally 20-30 new members each day asking the same questions, when the answers are posted all over the forum. They are just too lazy to look. Instead of answering the questions, most of us direct them to the search area, and stickies, or tacks as you would call them here I think.

We have all the same problems you guys do. But instead of attacking n00bs we give them some freedom, and direct them to the proper channels. The people who are truly into it will conform to the forum etiquette, and the others who are not will fade away. 4 pages of hijacking about someones grammar will just push people away, and that's a fact. Remember that the lurkers see this too. You're also alienating members from other countries that don't speak English well. On our forum it takes a lot for them to get the nerve up to post, and we are extremely liberal. I doubt any one of them would post after reading this thread. Once again, you're pushing people away that could add to the craft.

These are all facts, and not my opinion. Our forum get on average of 2500 members/guests a day, with over a 10,000 person membership. And its just a small laser forum. Steampunk has much more of a draw, yet your daily attendance is barely 100. Sure you could say the sever would not handle more, but we just got a new server that is lightning fast for under $400 a month, paid exclusively by donations. If you chill out you can achieve the same goals, but its not going to happen when people act like this, with 10 members alienating people over simple grammar.

That like it or leave it attitude is BS. You're just creating a stagnate pool.

BTW no one answered my toilet paper question.

[cge]

While I understand that the comments about minor errors and typos are in reference to the 'best of one's ability' comments made earlier, it's important to remember that the original posts in question were actually very difficult to understand because of the language used.

Hey, laserpunk...are you only enthusiastic about red lasers? I just wondered as you describe yourself (below your avatar) as a 'rouge laser enthusiast'

Or should that be 'rogue'? 

He's probably a rouge admin from Wikipedia in disguise.

[Laserpunk]

I can see that, but they were really simple, and not to far off from the smilies you have here. Also a quick Google would have filled in the blanks.

You guys need different types of people here. Art transcends social barriers. Its up to the individual if they want to leave that barrier up or not. Looking from the outside, its evident most of you are really board. You need to get new blood in to freshen things up. Your trade section alone should be filled with all sorts of items for sale. Its not, because you really don't have that many new people here. Why don't you have piles of new members? Hmmm 

Its OK to have your own values, and what you consider Steampunk should be. Whats not OK is to jam those beliefs down peoples throats. You cant expect people who are new to the art to just fit in without major errors. You have to groom them, not shove your foot up their arss. Remember, not everyone here wants to plunge into the art fully, and that's OK. There is nothing wrong with that. On the flip side you will find some people who will embrace the art, like you lot.

[Major Wolfram Quicksilver]

BTW no one answered my toilet paper question.

Just as well we aren't a true roman reenactment group then.  Sharing a sponge tied to a stick dipped in vinegar?  As for Victorian toilet paper, a commonly used material was old newspapers.  Cut into squares and threaded onto a piece of string at the corner, and hung in the privvy.  Killed two birds with one stone, reading material to boot.  My grandmother still had some hanging in her bathroom until the day she died, 'just in case'.  Then of course there was 'shiny white' paper, horrible stuff.  I'd have preferred the newsprint.

A low blow with your remark about teeth though.  Rather immature too.

[Capt. Dirigible]

Our Libray archive has a patent application from the 1890's for a design which is basically a large rectangle of paper folded into quarters with a curved perferation. The idea being that when you use a 'privvy' you took one of these from a supply and tore along the perforation and then unfolded it. You would then be left with a large rectangle with a circle torn out of the middle. You placed the square over the toilet seat to prevent your bum from coming in contact with the seat and used the torn out section as toilet paper.

[Laserpunk]

I've been so poor I've used newsprint as toilet paper before. I could not imagine the hardships some people went though during those times. We are so spoiled now.

About the teeth, that was my attempt at sarcastic humor. Me and the fellas consider it an art form, and have been practicing since before I can remember. I have the dubious distinction of sniper in my realm. I was actually being nice, believe it or not. I'll try to tone it down if the situation arises again. Very sorry.

[Major Wolfram Quicksilver]

No problem.  One man's meat is another man's poison and all that.  I think quite a few of us have used newsprint as toilet tissue in a pinch.  Does this mean these posts are still relevant to textual?

[Ginny Blundy]

So Laserpunk - your opinion is that we ought not to be rude to newbies by informing them that we can't understand what they are saying.

Likewise, we ought to gain a sense of humor,which you've decided to demonstrate to us mostly by making somewhat rude jokes about British people. I guess this means that you've noticed the co.uk suffix, and so you realize that this is a British forum.

So, to paraphrase you to this point, "don't be rude, be funny like me! Let me demonstrate humor, it involves rude jokes!"

Um, so. Isn't that still just being rude? Would it have been more acceptable to you if we'd made fun of Toxickun? Or does this humor of yours only involve making fun of Brits?

[Laserpunk]

My girlfriend's mom, and 3 grandparents are Brits, and ones a Scott (McLeod), all right off the boat, and they totally appreciate my humor. And theirs is just as cutting as mine, more so in some instances. So your point is void. I have a fondness for the Brits, and British humor. I thought you would appreciate the cut of my jib, but I guess I was wrong.

I said I was heated at the time, and I did apologize, so I think the rest of your points are void also. Also I was not talking to n00bs, I was addressing the veterans. I don't troll n00bs, which is what I thought I clearly said. I don't see how you could have missed that.

I may be new here, but I'm far from a n00b. I've always loved the style of the Victorians, and I love making gadgets. Nothing you could say could put me off. And yes, there is a huge lack of humor here. I guess that point was correct. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day, LOL. (*Humor)

I'm not a hypocrite, and I walk what I talk. I'm honest, loud, funny, and helpful. I love playing devils advocate, debating, and speaking my mind. I'm not here to please people, and I don't need pats on the back. If you cant handle this, then just ignore me, because I'm not going to pretend to be someone I'm not.

* Humor...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humour

[Kelley]

Humour is about knowing your audience and judging their reaction. Your seemed to be poking a stick to get on people's nerves, then hiding behind, "O, well I think it's funny, don't be so serious !" shield.

People here, from what I've seen so far, are of an older demographic - people who actually want to have interesting conversations - not just belittle each other. I also don't see a lack of humour (try checking out some other threads) - however, I do see a lack of humour used as petty insults.



I think this forum has behaved more than admirably to this Toxickun person. If this was the deviantART forum, I'm completely sure this person would have been torn to shreds, outright sworn at, and told to fuck off. This forum is at least trying to be inviting even if they're not sure how to. They're trying to find a way for things to work - which is a lot more than I can say for most forums I've been to.



As for me, I never had braces, have over-crowding, am "missing" a canine - which makes everything off-kilter - and I still find the time to laugh on a periodic basis as recommended for constitutional betterment.

[Laserpunk]

I apologized. We were past it, then it got up rooted again. I dont know the tone of the crowd yet, I'm still trying to figure it out. Just like you lot are trying to figure me out. Can we get past this, again, or are we going to keep flogging the horse.

[MalContent]

but if we can't flog it..than what is the purpose of the horse?   

[Laserpunk]

Thank you, you just made me spit soda LMAO.

[MalContent]

Thats what I am here for....to diffuse any and all tense situations with a liberal application of riddiculous humor centered on the maltreatment of animal, humans and or plant life....welcome to the board, by the by.

[Kelley]

I just wanted to make the point that this forum has been incredibly inviting. Much kinder than many - and kinder than many real-life situations would have been.


I only joined recently, too. I haven't had any problems, but perhaps they saw my bad teeth and recognised me as a brother.

[Laserpunk]

I only joined recently, too. I haven't had any problems, but perhaps they saw my bad teeth and recognised me as a brother.

[Kelley]

[Dr Fidelius]

These are all facts, and not my opinion. Our forum get on average of 2500 members/guests a day, with over a 10,000 person membership. And its just a small laser forum. Steampunk has much more of a draw, yet your daily attendance is barely 100. Sure you could say the sever would not handle more, but we just got a new server that is lightning fast for under $400 a month, paid exclusively by donations. If you chill out you can achieve the same goals, but its not going to happen when people act like this, with 10 members alienating people over simple grammar.

That like it or leave it attitude is BS. You're just creating a stagnate pool.

But I like being elitist and condescending towards the clueless.  It makes life worth living.

However, the reaction to Toxickun is an outlier.  Most newcomers make their introduction through asking about clothing choices or through discussion of Steampunk literature (or films).  To have come bursting in the door, displaying no concept of the sub-culture outside of "Steamboy," asking questions whose basic premises were absolutely wrong (about how a steam boiler actually works, for instance [not that being steam-powered is in any way central to "being" Steampunk]), and using a dialect that seems almost deliberately designed to set the hackles of the writers of this group on end, well, any two offenses could have been overlooked but the combination of all three...

Let's just say that he managed to trip the automatic responses of a wide variety of participants here, and so was "instructed" by the life-stylists, the makers AND the writers.  I have never before seen such a unanimity of purpose here.  I was impressed.