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Author Topic: REICHPUNK - Aesthetics of the Third Reich  (Read 11438 times)
Albrecht
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« Reply #75 on: January 23, 2010, 07:08:58 am »


The Bavarian H####R also hated airships.  He personally had the Graf Zeppelin scrapped.


And I think that fact should be in every history book. Adds more to the fact that he was a loathsome creep.
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Hikaro Takayama
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« Reply #76 on: January 23, 2010, 09:02:42 pm »


The Bavarian H####R also hated airships.  He personally had the Graf Zeppelin scrapped.



And I think that fact should be in every history book. Adds more to the fact that he was a loathsome creep.


....In an Arson, Murder and Jaywalking fashion....

...Although I have to say that that Mel Smith "Nazi Generals" video was hilarious!!
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« Reply #77 on: January 24, 2010, 05:09:40 am »

I believe this would be the thread to note that in the competitive online game Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, I always played as the Axis because they had the cooler uniforms.
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akumabito
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« Reply #78 on: January 24, 2010, 09:18:49 pm »

I believe this would be the thread to note that in the competitive online game Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, I always played as the Axis because they had the cooler uniforms.

Not to mention defending the fuel depot is always more fun than attacking it..
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Albrecht
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« Reply #79 on: January 25, 2010, 11:34:49 am »

I believe this would be the thread to note that in the competitive online game Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, I always played as the Axis because they had the cooler uniforms.

That's the thing: The Nazi uniforms look way cooler... Just don't get caught in one if you are German.

I don't know if I mentioned this in here before (I think I have a while back):
During my time in England I did WW II reenactment as part of the RAMC.
During one big event (Fistycuffs?) our platoon set opposite a platoon of Waffen-SS at a table in the "have a break"-tent and of course we talked about this and that.

The guy opposite me noted my accent and asked where I was from, so I told him I was German but for obvious reasons could not reenact WAffen SS although the uniforms were far more cool.

To which he replied, he certainly would not mind because he was Jewish...
That silenced me for a minute or two...
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 11:44:19 am by Albrecht » Logged
hardlec
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« Reply #80 on: January 25, 2010, 05:09:51 pm »

Another little known bit of trivia:  ALL the actors who portrayed Nazis in Hogan Heroes were Jewish.  It is easy to make fun of Nazis. 
{ven zee nazis say: vee is der master race vee say
Heil (raspberry)
heil (raspberry)
right id dee fuhrers face}

The idea, however, is whether any of the Art and Aesthetics of the Reich were "steamy."

I think not, when you also consider:

The Kreigsmarine gave up steam turbines for diesel engines, those nasty, smelly ICEs
The basic aesthetic of the Reich was devoid of any ornament.  Perfect proportions, but sterile.
Entirely too much black.

I'd say:  Spike Jones Punk.
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« Reply #81 on: January 25, 2010, 05:25:25 pm »

I believe this would be the thread to note that in the competitive online game Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, I always played as the Axis because they had the cooler uniforms.

Not to mention defending the fuel depot is always more fun than attacking it..

Good, it's not only me Smiley
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Atterton
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« Reply #82 on: August 28, 2016, 11:10:49 pm »

This site is becoming too quiet.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #83 on: August 28, 2016, 11:13:09 pm »

This site is becoming too quiet.

So you thought this was a good subject...
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #84 on: August 29, 2016, 01:00:24 am »

OK.  I'm game. I'll bite the hook. I don't want to be seen as the Nazi who keeps people from writing what they want.  Grin Ba-dum-tush!

[mod hat] But I'll have have to give you the usual warning about keeping the thread CIVILIZED.  I don't need to tell you what will happen otherwise.  Don't be schweins about this[/mod hat]

The problem I'm having with this subject is how utterly empty it is. If you've read my posts in the Queer Geer, you know that I love Germanica myself, with my Luftschiffengel character and all.  But seriously, the 3rd Reich was all about population manipulation, and the aesthetics associated with it were merely tools to socially engineer people, so I regard it to be completely devoid of artistic merit.

If you want to read seriously about this:
https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/arts/ARTREICH.HTM

Also, in your own words:

*snip*

It´s really just dieselpunk though. A genre quite well known already.


So really the aesthetic is a very abridged version of the Art Deco of the period,  just turning to totalitarian art and neo classicism to "erase the degenerate modern art and extoll the Aryan virtues," perhaps punctuated by pastoral imagery of the homeland as a way to give their Utopia an avatar of sorts. All of which itself,  obviates a great part of the charm found in the period we would like to call Dieselpunk.

So what would we call it?  Proto-Brutalism? Germanic Hellenism? Teutonic Spartanism? The technology itself is basically shrouded in art Deco,  which does not originate in the 3rd Reich...

Addendum :
I just remembered that just yesterday I was listening to recordings of Glenn Miller's wartime hits, some of them sung in German! And I realized there was a cultural void in Germany.  In fact, during WW2, the Allies were so convinced that German society was culturally repressed, that they enlisted musicians such as Glenn Miller's Orchestra, to record music for propaganda purposes. The idea was to show to the Germans that culture outside of Germany was upbeat and lively. Rather that send messages of fear, this musical propaganda used positive psychological reinforcement of happiness outside of Germany...

http://info.umkc.edu/specialcollections/archives/1304

Quote
Miller was fulfilling a request by the Office of War Information to broadcast the orchestra’s performance under his direction to the German military and German prisoners of war. The propaganda broadcasts were intended to show Germans that the Allies wanted inclusion of all countries in the quest for peace and that American music and life among the Allies was lively, lovely, and upbeat.


My two Reichmarks on the subject....
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 05:36:10 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Atterton
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« Reply #85 on: August 29, 2016, 01:58:43 am »

I like that Miller story, sounds like a decent thing to do.

Actually I stumbled on this thread while looking for something else, but as I'm watching The Man in the High Castle I figured it might be good for some conversation.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #86 on: August 29, 2016, 03:40:20 am »

I like that Miller story, sounds like a decent thing to do.

Actually I stumbled on this thread while looking for something else, but as I'm watching The Man in the High Castle I figured it might be good for some conversation.


Actually I have a 2-disc set called "Glenn Miller. The Lost Recordings," which has these recordings (in spite that many say they are "very difficult to get" -I think what happened is that the Miller Estate prevented these from being published for many years until the 1990s):

https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Recordings-RCA-Glenn-Miller/dp/B000003FYW

Glenn Miller & Ilse Weinberger - Begin of Beguine (in German)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 03:42:06 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
chironex
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« Reply #87 on: September 08, 2016, 11:38:14 am »

I believe this would be the thread to note that in the competitive online game Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, I always played as the Axis because they had the cooler uniforms.

The late Lemmy of Motorhead covered the walls of his unit in Nazi regalia for the same reason. He wasn't a Nazi, but the uniforms were so cool and they never used that boring khaki colour (which, he doesn't seem to have noticed, isn't actually true. Then again he was paying 900USD per week for a unit not much bigger than the heap of junk I get for 150AUD per week.)
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Clym Angus
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« Reply #88 on: September 09, 2016, 02:46:38 pm »

Ah, the works of Hugo Boss, now there is a company with a capacity for reinvention.

Now, as has been mentioned before "easy does it" that said being a fashion house one would expect cutting edge design of the time orbiting around a potential pay day.

The entire nazi movement and anything associated with it is essentially poisoned by associated ideology. The look is the mind to a greater level. I.E. stepping out in standard greys and blues will leave you explaining the modus of your operandi. Take "heathens" for example I know several people who would like to take back the sun wheel and certain aspects of the rune set as aspects of worship. It's not going to happen......

I fear that atrocity leaves a psychological stain on the trailering and symbolism of the perpetrators. We are visual creatures and there is no getting over that fact. The media is essentially the message and the media (for better or worse) with those people was essentially "Look". One of the reasons things went so badly in Russia was because form was chosen over function. Frostbitten feet in very pretty jack boots.

This is my main stumbling block if you'll pardon the pun.

Image as opposed to idiom. Personally I draw a great deal of pragmatism from steampunk. This trait I see more in the Russian forces rather than the Germans, British or for that matter the Americans. The T-34 did the job, it didn't look as good as the Panzer 5, or 6 but they were (by all accounts) a dream to work on and much more numerous. As for the Shermans,  or "Tommy cookers" as they were known. Well, mass production with a lightly flawed design will kill a lot of people.

Same with air craft. Germany jet fighters, pretty but complex and prone to explode. Spitfire, lovely to fly but bespoke, Japanese zeros manoeuvrable but couldn't take a beating. The pragmatism of Steampunk (for me) dictates a belt and braces solution to practical problems. I'm just not seeing that in the "fashion" of the second world war German output.

Still, if you can take the flack (your going to be the one wearing it after all) then wear it. I'm quite sure you can fight your own corner against the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.  Smiley
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #89 on: September 09, 2016, 06:07:36 pm »

Ah, the works of Hugo Boss, now there is a company with a capacity for reinvention.

Now, as has been mentioned before "easy does it" that said being a fashion house one would expect cutting edge design of the time orbiting around a potential pay day.

Still, if you can take the flack (your going to be the one wearing it after all) then wear it. I'm quite sure you can fight your own corner against the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.  Smiley


Then again some people adopt the fashion to cater to their darker fantasies - which may not have anything to do with a Teutonic supremacy theory but with, shall we say more carnal concerns?

This had been posted before. I think we all remember the character of Mistress Lili, by the Spanish artist, Rebeca Puebla:
http://subversivegirlart.deviantart.com/art/Mistress-Lili-Front-149056837
http://subversivegirlart.deviantart.com/art/Twisted-Dolls-Mistress-Lili-149056311
http://subversivegirlart.deviantart.com/art/Mistress-Lili-legs-149057317
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 06:13:02 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Clym Angus
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« Reply #90 on: September 09, 2016, 07:17:28 pm »

Accepted.

But (as with all high fashion) would you walk round Tescos in it? Cheesy
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #91 on: September 09, 2016, 07:47:06 pm »

Accepted.

But (as with all high fashion) would you walk round Tescos in it? Cheesy

Well, not me. I hate stilettos Roll Eyes But you'd be surprised the things we see at Walmart*




*same type of business as Tesco.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #92 on: September 09, 2016, 07:59:49 pm »

Yeah. I think I'll just stick to my Weimar Era flapper look.  But a quick browse through Walmart's web page shows they may come close to selling something like that vinyl totalitarian outfit  Cheesy

https://www.walmart.com/ip/192437392
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Atterton
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« Reply #93 on: September 09, 2016, 08:45:44 pm »

There is something called the Sukohmlinov Effect, which basically says that the side in a war which has the best looking uniforms is the one that will lose.
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Atterton
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« Reply #94 on: October 20, 2016, 07:03:26 pm »

This place is getting too quiet.
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #95 on: October 21, 2016, 05:31:31 pm »



Just to add  a little colour to the conversation, the symbolism and design  of the Reich,  was carefully calculated  to exude the appearences of strength and superiority.  From the flag ,  badges, uniforms , architectural  and interior design  of their official  buildings and apartments.  It was a styled for maximum impact. 

These designs were  so effective  that they are still immediately  recognisable  and well used today .

There is a movement amoung the Indian communities  of the world to reclaim the Swastika  for its original use
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #96 on: October 21, 2016, 05:35:57 pm »



Is it too soon - or could it be a positive step

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11725660

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Kensington Locke
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« Reply #97 on: October 25, 2016, 02:37:58 pm »

it's a catch-22.  If you strap on a swastika because you are reclaiming it, but everybody thinks you are a Nazi, then it's causing problems.

I'd be happy if he could take it back, but there's a whole lot of baggage with that symbol.

Plus, it doesn't help that we still have people saluting it for the evil it represented.

Which means we have to keep fighting Nazis.  Can't reclaim it while there's still a swath of evil worshipping it.
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Clym Angus
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« Reply #98 on: November 04, 2016, 07:53:36 pm »

This place is getting too quiet.

I don't understand. People get all jumpy around a WWII German thread just in case some happy monkey "sends in the trolls". Then have a moment because the thread is getting too sensible? Or quiet? "I'm sorry I just can't stand beige Nazi discussions! They are SO boring! Lackey! bring me my swastika knuckledusters! It's time to liven this shizer up a touch!"

One has to wonder what the "satisfaction criteria" for this thread is. Cheesy
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Banfili
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« Reply #99 on: November 05, 2016, 12:35:00 am »

The NAZI swastika was reversed - but not many people can tell the difference.
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