hardware hunting

[rovingjack]

I've got a project in mind that is waiting on finding certain peices that can be used with minimum fabrication and alteration. There are actually several ways I may be able to do what I need, but right now what I'm looking into is trying to find a peice of metal.

Ideally it would be shaped like a capital H 3 x 3 inches, in one case or 4 x 4 inches in the other case, with half inch wide limbs on the H. preferably in a sheet metal stock strong enough not to bend easily but but easily enough to put a hole in (or if it has one already at the points where horizontal meets verticle even better) and rivet.

worst case scenario hend up riveting three staight pieces together.

[fciron]

Probably ought to start riveting. I am not aware of any H-shaped straps. You might be able to find H hinges in that size, but they bend in the middle.

[rovingjack]

the basic concept is I need two hinges the commect with each other to lay flat like an / open as an Z allthe way to an |,  top of that  would like the center panel to be 'open' similar to a picture frame but having it be two bands connecting the ends works too. The goal being to attach the top left of the Z to the bottom right through the middle.

think of the Jacobs Ladder wooden toys done in riggid hardware peices hinged at each joint.

[Narsil]

I think a drawing would help, that explanation is a bit cryptic to say the least.

[rovingjack]

the top part shows the desired effect. mainly that the hinges be in those red circle locations and the white square area in the middle be open.

The trick is it's intended to all be metal. I havn't got anything that will drill through metal of any real substance. I don't have welding ability either.

I have the brown metal plates already. I just need to hinge them. The easiest way I can figure that doesn't invole drilling or welding the hinges to the plate is to mount some kind of internal brace to which I can secure hinges. The grey is the brace and the gold is the hinge. any variation that gets a hinge to the three desired locations on each plate would be good.

The dimensions are not absolutely what I suggested above, as I can juggle this a few differant ways.

[theDapperDocent]

Maybe I'm mis-reading your explanation, but how do you intend to rivet the internal metal braces to the "brown metal plates" if you are unable to drill through said plates?    I may be mistaken but I believe riveting in this fashion would still require a hole be drilled to begin with.    Not trying to pick apart your explanation or anything of course, just trying to understand the problem.   

[Narsil]

Yes, depending on how thick the plate is you may need a bracing structure to support it and give it enough rigidity but that doesn't really solve your fixing problem, in fact it makes it worse, since you now need to fix the hinges to the struts and the struts to the plate.

If you can't drill, weld or braze then the only real option left is adhesive, a decent engineering epoxy would probably do it, dependinh on the design of your hinges but its far from ideal.

How thick is the plate and what material ?

[jringling]

If the internal braces do not have to be too heavy, you could track down some madison straps at your local hardware/electrical store. These are light steel straps for installing outlet boxes in a finished wall.

I tried to find a picture, but this is the best I could find:
http://electrical.about.com/od/diyprojectsmadeeasy/ss/installcutinbox_5.htm

[rovingjack]

the metal plates are in fact pre holed at roughly the locations in the measurements above. As these plates are from a variety of electrical supplies that are screw mounted to boxes of varing size. I'm still looking for really large ones that migh be put over shoe box sized openings, but the smaller ones are done with metal eletrical box covers, and light switch plates of varying size and varying location of the screw mounting.

I've bee pondering a bit and think I may have a solution that would pass for the prototype I'm working on. I may give the madison clamp a look, but right now I'm thinking the I might try something like the hinged glass mason jars use. Where they have wire that forms hinges and clasps.

If the idea proves useful and practicle I will likely start looking at the option of finding a rig that will drill small holes in outlet covers. The finished product will look better.

Is there anything out there that cold be used regularly for such things? is drill press all that is needed? certain bits? I didn't want to start with this kind of work because the the idea is untested and a large financial outlay would not be justified.

[Narsil]

You can do a lot with a hand held electric drill but a drill press will give yo a lot more accuracy and make drilling through harder materials much easier.

It's also important to have a decent set of drills, High Speed Steel (HSS) twist bits are good for most things as long as they are decent quality, cheap drills are a false economy. You'll also need something to hold the work while drilling, clamps, a cross-slide vise etc.

The most important thing when drilling is to match the drill speed to both the material and the hole size.

[jringling]

Be sure to use cutting oil, even on the softer metals. It is very easy to break drill bits, even as large as 1/8", in brass and steel sheet...

And a center punch is worth the investment. I use a spring loaded punch to mark my holes and it makes drilling accurately much easier.

[Narsil]

Brass is usually machined without lubricant, as is cast iron. If you break a bit its usually because its incorrectly ground, the work isn't set up properly or you're using the wrong feedrate/cutting speed. Oil won't stop bits breaking.

If you're drilling material significantly thinner than the diameter of the drill then you need to support the back side of the hole with a wooden block or similar to stop the drill ripping through the metal and jamming. For large holes in thin sheet its better to use a hole saw.