Observations at a High School Dance

[Utini420]

Two things I've long wondered:

1. At what point did the Romans know they were toast?  Were they all shocked to see the empire crumble (I'm not talking about Caesars and Senators, I'm talking about street vendors and servant girls) or did they spend decades or centuries pining about the end that was "just around the corner?"

2. Did their subject peoples and client states give a damn?  History being written by the winners and all, I've often wondered if the typical, say, Gaelic farmer or Visigothic sheepherd wasn't just as happy to see them done and gone?


On the culture of trashy sex: Abstinence is easy, you just don't do it.  And being a wonton slut is easy, you just toss it out there.  Anything else, particularly monogamy and especially any kind of ethical promiscuity requires EFFORT.  You've got to talk a lot about tricky soft things like feelings and needs and desires and fears.  People hate effort nowadays, even when they pay off is great sex (with a level of emotional commitment acceptable to all parties).


Good luck with that "back to nature," thing.  Short of a truly massive plague population pressures will render that all but impossible except for a very very few.

[TribalWren]

On the culture of trashy sex: Abstinence is easy, you just don't do it.  And being a wonton slut is easy, you just toss it out there.  Anything else, particularly monogamy and especially any kind of ethical promiscuity requires EFFORT.  You've got to talk a lot about tricky soft things like feelings and needs and desires and fears.  People hate effort nowadays, even when they pay off is great sex (with a level of emotional commitment acceptable to all parties).

Oh, I'm all fine with the effort part....now just need to find a guy that has the same definition of monogamy and life will be grand. *mutters expletives at bastard ex-fiance* 

Good luck with that "back to nature," thing.  Short of a truly massive plague population pressures will render that all but impossible except for a very very few.

No plans to "go back to nature". Quite the opposite infact- I was thinking of trying the old USofA for a change. You guys generally seem to be quite chipper....

[Flynn MacCallister]

Oh noez! We're at the end of days! Again.

Woo-hoo. Another financial crisis. Yes, it hurts, but it happens again and again. My country hasn't been hit as hard by this one as it has been by many others, yours might have been hit harder this time than most of the other recent ones. We have financial crises. All the time.

We're no more morally bankrupt than humanity has ever been. What about the twenties? The sixties? Compared to other recent periods, our modern morals -- or lack thereof -- are nothing special.

It wasn't better when you were younger, or when your parents were, or when your grandparents were. You just think it was.

[mr_Apricot]

I go to a rather small school, and those who are somewhat similar to me in taste and ideology generally hide it more. I am known by most everyone as "That weird (insert random social stereotype here) kid." I am completely happy with my identity, though i do understand those who feel uncomfortable expressing themselves, high school can be a very vicious place. As for having that much fun, i have a wonderful girlfriend at home whom i see on some weekends and during breaks.

[patron_vectras]

On the culture of trashy sex: Abstinence is easy, you just don't do it.  And being a wonton slut is easy, you just toss it out there.  Anything else, particularly monogamy and especially any kind of ethical promiscuity requires EFFORT.  You've got to talk a lot about tricky soft things like feelings and needs and desires and fears.  People hate effort nowadays, even when they pay off is great sex (with a level of emotional commitment acceptable to all parties).

Emotional commitment comes to the sexual have-alls and have-nots, the ways I have seen it.
Abstainers have to contend with not becoming zombies- not thinking and doing things that humans are made for can be hard!
Promiscuous types are constantly justifying their actions and burying the past.

Of course, they deal with the needs of themselves more than anyone else. In a partnership, the opposite should care for you and you for them, totally open to allow this to happen. That is a perfect world setting, nobody can be completely open about things that are hard to express. Patience, understanding, and common sense help bridge the gap.

Too bad about patience, understanding, and common sense... a right luxury these days the way people live.

Take this "dancing," for instance. Nobody on the floor stops to think, "Does this make me feel better? Does this make me look as I want to be perceived in the eyes of the public?" Another step back, and we get, "If I am perceived this way by others, what will happen? What are examples of people who take this path?" Those are questions we learn in middle school. We learn to ask them on our own, with help or hindrance from role models.

[Anders]

Ah, I knew my statement would cause some rumblings!

The last thing I wanted was for my comments to make anyone feel pressured into anything!  It did sound from the lad's first post that he was looking for a good time (though perhaps not that good a time) and came away lacking.

Please forgive me if it seemed as if I were implying such.  I think my kind of life experience may be in the minority here, so there may be "lost-in-translation" moments even amongst speakers of the same language.  Or I should probably wait longer after my morning coffee to post...  The ensuing discussion, however, has been most interesting.

[H. MacHinery]

Oh noez! We're at the end of days! Again.

Woo-hoo. Another financial crisis. Yes, it hurts, but it happens again and again. My country hasn't been hit as hard by this one as it has been by many others, yours might have been hit harder this time than most of the other recent ones. We have financial crises. All the time.

We're no more morally bankrupt than humanity has ever been. What about the twenties? The sixties? Compared to other recent periods, our modern morals -- or lack thereof -- are nothing special.

It wasn't better when you were younger, or when your parents were, or when your grandparents were. You just think it was.

That's what I've been saying!   

Our parents bemoaned rock&roll - but their parents railed against jazz, and THEIR parents railed against dancehall music, ad infinitum.

I think there's a quote from Petronius Arbiter about the declinig morals of youth in his day, 1500 years ago.....

la plus la change......

[helios]

There's also one from Cicero, and Aristotle.

[Flynn MacCallister]

There's also one from Cicero, and Aristotle.

One from Cicero?! Try every-other-time-he-opened-his-mouth!

[helios]

Fair point. How about some from Cicero.

[Flynn MacCallister]

Or even several....

Hahaha, that man was so obnoxious. I'm glad all we have to put up with now are people quoting and imitating him, not the man himself. >_o

[patron_vectras]

at least he had the good sense to go into self exile every once in a while.

Its great how people think things should be getting better as the years go on.
They may be disillusioned, but at their sense of morals is getting some exercise.

[Utini420]

I couldn't agree more, Anders.  Great discussion!

When I said the ethical promiscuous types have to talk a lot, I should have been clearer: I meant before they do the deed, not after.  Sure you'll talk your way out of some action every now and again, but afterward there's nothing to justify and no past to bury. 

[ulfnir]

Ok so maybe my response was a little extreme. Forgive an old grouch having a bad day?

[Utini420]

Sure thing, old man.  You'r forgiveness papers are waiting for your signature, right there in the tray marked, "Soilent." 

 

[Sir Nikolas Vendigroth]

My memory's a bit sketchy, but the following seems to encompass today's society:

"Oh, the times we live in! No son will listen to his father, the youths drink too much and everyone wants to write a book!"

I think I've got that about right...

[Sgt.Major Thistlewaite]

It seems the thrust of the last several posts is; "Oh, don't worry..things are the same as they have always been, the older generation railing against the behaviour of the younger...."

Nonsense. The behaviour of youngsters today is far and away more depraved, disaffected, and violent than ever before in human history. They have no respect for parents, or indeed for any authority. Stupid fads emulate the behavior of the very worst elements of society-i.e. the wearing of pants in a "sagging" manner, exposing the undergarments, (which originated in the prison population, who are denied belts for security reasons)-and song lyrics which praise anti-social actions and attitudes. "Bitches and Ho*s and "pop a cap in yo ass." Gang violence is endemic and rampant, and these pubescent idiots think that the gangsters are the most admirable people in the world.
When I see one of these nearly brain dead young men with his pants at half mast, it makes me want to jerk them up so hard that he comes three feet off the ground, thoroughly crushing certain portions of his anatomy and insuring that he never procreates. If this generation is this bad, I cannot begin to imagine what their progeny would be like. Zombies, goons and ghouls, most likely, with the intellectual capacity of slime mold. Probably a moot point, though, because if things continue to degenerate there will be no next generation.


In my considered opinion, society would be best served by rounding them up and gassing the lot-gunpowder is expensive.

The rare youngling with Steampunk sensibilities shines like a diamond in a sea of shite!

Thistlewaite

[ulfnir]

I like the cut of your jib, Sgt. Major.

[Utini420]

Oh, buck up, Sgt. Major.... if there is anything humans can be counted on, its to generate more of themselves. 

[Sgt.Major Thistlewaite]

My dear Utini, that is precisely what concerns me so!

Ah well, the Barony of Lux shall endure, at least as long as the ammunition holds out. If and when I am down to the last five rounds ( in my trusty old Harrington & Richardson break-frame revolver, .38 calibre,) those shall be expended to save the missus, my three dogs and myself the final indignity of being eaten alive by these ravening idiots.

~T

[rentreality]

My dear Utini, that is precisely what concerns me so!

Ah well, the Barony of Lux shall endure, at least as long as the ammunition holds out. If and when I am down to the last five rounds ( in my trusty old Harrington & Richardson break-frame revolver, .38 calibre,) those shall be expended to save the missus, my three dogs and myself the final indignity of being eaten alive by these ravening idiots.

Is there room in the Barony's borders for a younger individual who laments the collapse of decency? The younger individual in question is also quite good with a 12-gauge, if it comes to the defense of the land.

[TribalWren]

Re: the baggy pants issue. It reminded me of when I used to work with 'yoofs' in London, running clubs to get them off the streets etc. All the boys there were convinced they were mini-gangstas- their trousers were pulled down so low that they were literally waddling all over the place. Anyway, my finest moment was when I got them to do an activity where they had to come to the front of the room and talk to the group. When it was his turn, this right little *&%£ saundered up to the front, giving it all the attitude, turned around and his trousers fell down to his ankles!! It was so classic.

Even better, he promptly burst into tears and ran outside, asking for his Mum. *sigh* There's your 'gangsta' for you! 

[Mina]

as another young member of this forum, I have seen firsthand what Mr. Apricot has described initially in this thread. It has gotten to the point where I absolutely refuse to go to the school 'dances' because of the extremely immoral behavior of students.
no more is it just the 'cool' kids. I know people that I have or do consider friends, who are by all means the band geeks, choir nerds, debate team kids, all who act and 'dance' in the same manner. I wholeheartedly agree that the human race is declining, and it worries me that my generation will be having and raising children, and I worry how those children will be raised, and how far the morals of the supposedly 'civil' society can further decline.

I think that if the western world has reached the point where it is permissible to grind (as the form of 'dance' is called) and refer to ones friends, courters, and other companions as 'b*tches', 'h*es', 'sl*ts', and all other manner of rude language (which does happen every day, and I hate to listen to it so much) then the western world, or any other part of the world that this may apply to, no longer deserves to be called civilized.

[Doctor Trakov]

Moreover, the music at such dances is bad. It's not really music, just a synthesized beat with either a fat bloke rapping over it or an airbrushed woman with a suspiciously computerised voice.

Admittedly, those people would most likely complain about the music at the places I go to. At least my trousers are in the right place, worn out though they may be.

[Utini420]

Well, that sort of is the other side of my "when in rome" argument.  If its boring, well, all bets are off.