Observations at a High School Dance

[TribalWren]

 Really, what I was getting at is that you'll never have the same kind of time and social freedom you enjoy in your youth again in your life, so use it while you've got it.  If that means building hair-brained contraptions designed after your own whimsy, then rock out! 

I think the whole crunk/grinding thing is, well, retarded.  But then, I thought a lot of the crap kids did at parties while I was in school was also retarded.  But when I look back on my school years, it is not the nights I held my self aloof, beholden to some higher standard, that I remember fondly.  Rather, I cherish the memories of the nights I said to hell with it, tossed civility to the wind, and jumped into the throng.  I guess what I'm saying is, its great to hold oneself to a higher standard, but that only goes so far if you're alone at the top of your personal mountain.

(Of course, I say all that like I'm this old guy who never parties anymore; couldn't be further from the truth.)

Man, wish I had could do the college years again..would definately do things a lot different. My circumstances at the time contributed to my lack of sociability but it was also my attitude-the guys at school used to call me the Ice Queen...I'm with Utini on this one. Life's for living and when you start working the 9-5 it's much harder to recalim your teenage years. Believe me, I'm attempting it right now! 

[Anders]

I disagree that "jumping into the throng" is the way to create memorable experiences.  I detest the type of behavior described in the original post, and I see no good thing that can come of it which is not available in some other activity.  In high school the only "dance" that I attended was at Prom (which consisted of a very fancy dinner, then some very base "dancing;" I went for the food!), and mostly I just suffered through that on the outskirts of the room.  I did try to jump in at one point, but was horrified that two girls sandwiched me almost immediately and started "bumpin' and grindin'."  Thankfully our chaperons broke up that kind of thing rather quickly (I was very embarrassed, to say the least), and I returned to the sidelines.  The all-night after-prom at the bowling alley/pizza place was much more fun.

I believe that it is important to try to hold to a moral standard (however one defines that), otherwise it is not really your standard, no?  I could have just tossed everything to the wind and hung out with the "cool" kids in my high school, but I elected to stay above the drinking and bad behavior because I decided that having fewer friends was better than having shallow friends.  I devoted my time to theater, speech team, Knowledge Bowl, and band and choir.  These were the kinds of people I wanted to make strong connections with because they were generally the kinds of people who valued the same things as me.

Thank you for writing this piece.  I agree that it should be sent in to various medium- to large-sized newspapers or other media outlets.

[TribalWren]

I don't think that anyone was (I know I wasn't) trying to say that you should totally leave yourself behind in order to hang-out with the 'cool-kids'-who is it that defines them thus anyway?!

More a general observation that whatever it is that suits your social-sensibilities, make sure you make time/space to do those things to the full, because at that time in your life you have the opportunity. I too believe that it's important to hold to your own moral standards, but I also understand that at that point in your youth, you are still defining those standards and so feel that it's important to not feel restricted by pressure to conform to those standards in just the same way as to conform to the cool-kid norm. I see youth as the time to experiement, try things, make mistakes etc. cause only then can you begin to truly define what moral principles you personally adhere to. This doesn't mean I'm saying that you should go out, have sex and take drugs...that's obviously your personal choice(!) But, I also think one shouldn't judge those who do make these choices, because it may be what they need to do in order to mature into adulthood.

Interesting discussion....


 

[Maj. Clive Hathaway]

More a general observation that whatever it is that suits your social-sensibilities, make sure you make time/space to do those things to the full, because at that time in your life you have the opportunity. I too believe that it's important to hold to your own moral standards, but I also understand that at that point in your youth, you are still defining those standards and so feel that it's important to not feel restricted by pressure to conform to those standards in just the same way as to conform to the cool-kid norm. I see youth as the time to experiement, try things, make mistakes etc. cause only then can you begin to truly define what moral principles you personally adhere to. This doesn't mean I'm saying that you should go out, have sex and take drugs...that's obviously your personal choice(!) But, I also think one shouldn't judge those who do make these choices, because it may be what they need to do in order to mature into adulthood.

I have to say i agree with you wholeheartedly on this, Ms. Wren. Personally, i will always take regret over DOING something rather than regret over NOT doing something. Then again, i am an incourigible Libertine and was quite the rake in my youth... Basically do what feels right for you, but always rememeber to try new things... a double edged blade, that, but that is part of being young. Push your boundries... explore the limits of your comfort and do it while youre young. I think that just by having the forethought and introspection that the author of this post has already exhibited, he'll be okay. Plus, it sucks to have to be a virgin well into your 20's because you never just let go when you were in Highschool...

[TribalWren]

Plus, it sucks to have to be a virgin well into your 20's because you never just let go when you were in Highschool...

*raises an eyebrow* Oh? 

[Maj. Clive Hathaway]

*raises an eyebrow* Oh? 

Or so one might IMAGINE!! (ehem)

[Ryu]

Plus, it sucks to have to be a virgin well into your 20's because you never just let go when you were in Highschool...

*raises an eyebrow* Oh? 

Why is this always made out to be a bad thing?

[Cpt. Tobias Warde]

Plus, it sucks to have to be a virgin well into your 20's because you never just let go when you were in Highschool...

*raises an eyebrow* Oh? 

Why is this always made out to be a bad thing?

Not sure. Friend of mine is 23 now and still a virgin, he just can not attract women, no matter what he does. Makes him quite depressed, poor chap. Not as if he smells, or is badly dressed, or isn't a nice person, just a lot of people find him quite intimidating (6'3'', rather broad, bald head).

As for the actual subject, that sort of 'bump 'n' grindin'' (as I am led to believe it is called) is pretty common in adult clubs (from my limited experience of trendy/'chav' clubs and my wider experience of Metal/Goth clubs). From what I have seen from fetish nights though (whilst I don't have any particular fetishes, I do like dressing up in my uniforms/victorian garb, and the people are always pleasant, polite, friendly, chatty), the 'bump 'n' grind' thing is nothing.

What does worry me would be the ages of those in this High School dance, 14-16 if I read correctly. That they engage in such dancing at such a young age, whilst hormones will be starting to zip about their bodies, is a result of mainstream societys emphasis on anything sexual, whether it is to promote or sell, or as part of the 'art' of popular culture, such as mainstream music.

[CapnHarlock]

The High Water mark of Mankind. (IMHO)

As an attendee at that historical event, I must agree with the Sar'n't Major

[Utini420]

Whenever I think about that period of history, I can almost hear Hunter S. Thompson in Fear and Loathing talking about the place where the water broke and finally rolled back to the sea.

Wish I'd have been there.

[Flynn MacCallister]

Oh, dear Lord....my poor nerves!   >breathes into a brown paper bag<

I am with you on this one.  My girls have a Christmas dance coming up.  I know they are ladies, but I fear for their sensibilities.

You don't need to worry, the rest of us just laugh at them. It's a great evening of entertainment.

And about this wasting your youth malarky ...

(and yes, if you don't "waste your youth," on sex, drugs, and rock n roll then you wasted it)

In your eyes Mr Uniti I have wasted most of mine, but in my eyes I have used it for better things, to become a better mad scientist! However perhaps I took a different angle on all the above things one should waste thier youth on:

Sweet!  Don't take my "variable set" of sex, drugs, and rock n roll too literally -- in my youth, use of metallic vapours and various ferrous materials to make a better show of an exploding microwave was deffinitly rock n roll.  Really, what I was getting at is that you'll never have the same kind of time and social freedom you enjoy in your youth again in your life, so use it while you've got it.  If that means building hair-brained contraptions designed after your own whimsy, then rock out! 

I think the whole crunk/grinding thing is, well, retarded.  But then, I thought a lot of the crap kids did at parties while I was in school was also retarded.  But when I look back on my school years, it is not the nights I held my self aloof, beholden to some higher standard, that I remember fondly.  Rather, I cherish the memories of the nights I said to hell with it, tossed civility to the wind, and jumped into the throng.  I guess what I'm saying is, its great to hold oneself to a higher standard, but that only goes so far if you're alone at the top of your personal mountain.

(Of course, I say all that like I'm this old guy who never parties anymore; couldn't be further from the truth.)

All that said, though, dude: if the mad science thing isn't bringing in the ladies (crazy, unique, from-their-own-mold ladies, but ladies none the less) you might be doing it wrong.    (kidding, kidding)

You're just an inch shy of a basic truth there: teenagers are, essentially, retarded. Therefore many or most of the things they do are retarded. Also, heaps of fun at the time.

[Mrs. Sullivan]

[/quote]

As for the actual subject, that sort of 'bump 'n' grindin'' (as I am led to believe it is called) is pretty common in adult clubs (from my limited experience of trendy/'chav' clubs and my wider experience of Metal/Goth clubs).
[/quote]

Oh dear, and here I was going to recommend to the Young Gentleman that he find a nice Goth Club to frequent.  I have many fond memories of waltzing away the hours at the House of Usher in San Francisco...
<sigh>  Times have indeed changed.

I think the biggest problem facing Mr. Apricot is that he is looking for unique and individualistic behavior from a crowd that has obviously and heartily embraced mainstream customs and mores.  i hope that Mr. Apricot will not give up his search, but will continue to look for those erstwhile companions of a like mind that surely must exist in the hidden corners of his school.

[Utini420]

Mrs. Sullivan has nicely bracketed what I was trying to say:  keep your standards high, and keep looking for those few people who meet them.  But while searching for your soal mates and life long friends, don't pass up the lesser-but-still-good things along the way. 

[Anders]

Mrs. Sullivan has nicely bracketed what I was trying to say:  keep your standards high, and keep looking for those few people who meet them.  But while searching for your soul mates and life long friends, don't pass up the lesser-but-still-good things along the way. 

I agree with this statement, though I suspect we disagree on what constitutes a "still-good" thing.

From what I have seen on this forum, I am surprised that people would suggest that keeping one's virginity is an undesirable thing.  We can agree to disagree on this, but I want to put the message out there that not everyone believes sex is a purely physical thing.  I want to save myself for a lifelong partner so that I can give something to her that nobody else can have.  Further, I heard of a study claiming that people rate married sex as the hottest

Perhaps I will discontinue this line of discussion before things get awkward.  But my statement stands: societal pressure (even from Steampunks) should not make one feel bad about abstaining.

[Utini420]

The last thing I wanted was for my comments to make anyone feel pressured into anything!  It did sound from the lad's first post that he was looking for a good time (though perhaps not that good a time) and came away lacking.

Please don't assume that those of us who enjoy the fruits of humanity do so in a purely physical way.  While I'll not tell you I've been deeply and madly in love with every woman I've ever touched, the only thing keeping the implication that I see sex as purely and exclusively physical from being offensive is my very thick skin and good sense of humor.  Don't worry that you've made me feel awkward, though, either.  If everyone agreed, this would be a boring conversation.

Don't feel bad about abstaining.  Don't feel bad about getting your freak on. 
Do feel bad about being pushed into things you're not comfortable with, and feel like scum for pushing others where they'd rather not go.

As to those studies of married sex being the hottest, I've got some experience with that, being married.  Its probably statistically true: you've got folks who have really learned to do it right together plus folks who never did it any other way and have no basis for comparison up against the folks who complain bitterly about their cold marriages.  Poor bastards, that last group.

As far as steampunk's social-sexual attitudes towards sex are concerned, I'd be surprised to see too many folks preaching abstinence, to be honest.  The stereotype of Victorian prudery was limited to the middle class, folks with something to loose and something to prove, socially speaking.  The poor couldn't have cared less (then, now, or otherwise) and the rich couldn't be bothered.  These are the people who invented our notions of "fetish."


All that not withstanding, there were two other things I'd wanted to add to my comments on this:
1. I've got a hard time following my own advice.  That's why I give it: I can look back on my life and see missed opportunities.  Woulda, shoulda, coulda.  I also see some glaring mistakes, but on balance there is far more that I would do that I didn't than things I'd undo if I could.
2. All that "when in Rome," talk of mine: it only counts for girls.  To hell with lame dudes doing stupid shit, unless its stupid shit you're into.  They can go watch foot ball and slam beers on their own.  I'll be hangin' with the women folk, doing whatever silly dance they like.

[TribalWren]

From what I have seen on this forum, I am surprised that people would suggest that keeping one's virginity is an undesirable thing.  We can agree to disagree on this, but I want to put the message out there that not everyone believes sex is a purely physical thing.  I want to save myself for a lifelong partner so that I can give something to her that nobody else can have.  Further, I heard of a study claiming that people rate married sex as the hottest

Perhaps I will discontinue this line of discussion before things get awkward.  But my statement stands: societal pressure (even from Steampunks) should not make one feel bad about abstaining.

Maybe I've mis-translated some American here, but I wasn't aware that *anybody* had suggested that keeping one's virginity is an undesirable thing?! I for one have no interest in what people do with their virginity >take it for walks, market it for a profit.....<

It is also possible to believe that sex is more than a purely physical thing after you actually start having it! *cue the sound of men mocking...*. I think I get where you're coming from though and of course societal pressure should not make one feel bad about abstaining, but that also works the other way round, k? I'm not sure if this applies more to Britain, but there's still a lot of shame/stigma attached to sex which means that rather than kids approaching the issues from an open viewpoint, they end up getting themselves in trouble because they try and deal with their issues alone. What's the story in the States? We only know what the British press tells us and as other Americans have told me in other threads this is usually part of some conspiracy to belittle the good people of the USA.... *lies...LIEs!* 

[Utini420]

On this side of the pond, double standards and a culture of guilt prevail.  You should want sex, but not have it.  Or have it, and feel bad about it.  Or not have it, and feel bad about that.  Or possibly worry that you aren't doing it right, or enough, or too much.  Or that something you want to do in fact reveals some deep seated problem.

Its not as bad as all that for everyone, of course.  But as a whole, America has yet to shrug off its puritanical founding.  Remember, we were founded by folks who got tossed out of Holland for being too up tight. 

[Victoria The Mistress]

Oh my life, don't get me started here.....

I am fortunate in that my son talks openly with me about his life experiences, and I'm currently being nominated for an Oscar for the "Mother least fazed by ANYTHING a teenager cares to divulge" Category..... while inside I'm screaming BUT BUT BUT!!!!!........ and thinking how come things have changed so much in the last 20 - erm, 25 years since I was his age?

Or maybe they haven't? Maybe my generation of teens were just more furtive about it all.....

But no, I went to a few "clubs" under-age, and I don't recall seeing that kind of dancing, at least not amongst the 20 something groups.... in the late 80s when I was at college in London there may have been a bit more drug induced raving, but I don't recall the emphasis on suggestive display.....

One the one hand I wish we Brits would just get over the sex thing - we like it, it's fun, but it's just one part of life...... we seem to tack it on to everything that makes us feel obsessed.... and how come it seems so tacky when we do it? Maybe what I would like to see is a redefinition of erotica and the joy of the hidden......and the anticipation of things....... t'is so true that the chase is at least half the fun, probably more.....

Give me romance, subtlety, even a little dark obsession, but spare me the sex industry approach to it all!

[Maj. Clive Hathaway]

Any view expressed in my previous posts are my own opinions and not by any means canan law. For the love of god DONT think i know best or i'm trying to tell anybody the only way to live their lives. Unrepentant Libertine here...

[TribalWren]

Oh my life, don't get me started here.....

I am fortunate in that my son talks openly with me about his life experiences, and I'm currently being nominated for an Oscar for the "Mother least fazed by ANYTHING a teenager cares to divulge" Category..... while inside I'm screaming BUT BUT BUT!!!!!........ and thinking how come things have changed so much in the last 20 - erm, 25 years since I was his age?

Or maybe they haven't? Maybe my generation of teens were just more furtive about it all.....

But no, I went to a few "clubs" under-age, and I don't recall seeing that kind of dancing, at least not amongst the 20 something groups.... in the late 80s when I was at college in London there may have been a bit more drug induced raving, but I don't recall the emphasis on suggestive display.....

One the one hand I wish we Brits would just get over the sex thing - we like it, it's fun, but it's just one part of life...... we seem to tack it on to everything that makes us feel obsessed.... and how come it seems so tacky when we do it? Maybe what I would like to see is a redefinition of erotica and the joy of the hidden......and the anticipation of things....... t'is so true that the chase is at least half the fun, probably more.....

Give me romance, subtlety, even a little dark obsession, but spare me the sex industry approach to it all!

HA! No sex please, we're British! This is really something that I saw a difference in from when I was living in France. The French have the best attitude to sex IMHO. They totally have the idea close relationships formed in romance, but at the same time they also acknowledge those other kinds of relationships that may just be one of those passing fancies.....(!)

The main thing though is that everyone accepts this as a given (although I have been taken aback by certain conversations I've had with married friends who openly talk about the woman their husband sees every so often....!! O_O). There are also none of the rules and false etiquettes that the British have-the 'no sex on a first date' definately does not apply.... However, I do agree with your point that Britain has become more and more tacky/sex-industry focused. The problem is that they lack what the French hold on to-the class, romance, even self-respect side of things. When talking about these kinds of issues I'm quite shocked at the lack of self-awareness in both boys/girls, but how can you now put things back the way they once were? Britain has lost it's moral values system.

[Victoria The Mistress]

Great post Tribal Wren, and I like the way you describe the French way of things - the understanding of the ways people may connect at different levels especially.

The worst thing for me is the vulgarity we seem to have embraced, and the lack of self respect in the young that you mention. For all the government bleat on about sex education, it seems there is definitely something lacking in the way it is presented. Now that the moral boundaries are so blurred, they should be replaced by guidance on knowing yourself well enough to know that you want to be involved with someone intimately, and being able to feel comfortable all the way down the line. As well as being as responsible of course. In my house being responsible means that no-one is to make me a Grandmother before I'm 50......... 

[ulfnir]

Western society is in terminal decline, both morally and financially. Its soon going to be time to break out the blunderbuss and go and live somewhere remote.

[TribalWren]

Western society is in terminal decline, both morally and financially. Its soon going to be time to break out the blunderbuss and go and live somewhere remote.

Is currently in the planning stages for me....but I'm a bit of a wanderer anyway.

Have found that my life in any other country, except for England, has been considerably more fulfilling though and less stressful. Can't wait to get away, to be frank! 

[Victoria The Mistress]

Western society is in terminal decline, both morally and financially. Its soon going to be time to break out the blunderbuss and go and live somewhere remote.

Is currently in the planning stages for me....but I'm a bit of a wanderer anyway.

Have found that my life in any other country, except for England, has been considerably more fulfilling though and less stressful. Can't wait to get away, to be frank! 

There's a bit of me that is right behind you....then there is a bit that wants to stay and start the Revolution......  

[ulfnir]

The same here M'ladies.

I need to develop a selective destruction serum, I think.