Lest we forget

[Jonny B. Goode]

My dad was at Pearl Harbor; he went on to Guam, Guadalcanal, Kwajalein and other major battles in the Pacific.

I honored him yesterday by playing in a band at a Veterans memorial party.

[Sir A Poiselamppe]

There are (at least) two occupations within military service which come immediately to my mind, occupations which could (and have) been performed by those who are dedicated, confirmed pacifists.
These supremely important functions are Corpsman ( Medic, generally known as "Doc" to his comrades,) and Chaplain ( referred to sometimes as "Sky Pilot.") Neither carry firearms, but their bravery is beyond question, as each performs his duties whilst under hostile fire, the Medic treating the wounded on the field of battle, and the Chaplain crawling forward to administer Last Rites to a dying soldier.

I do hope your pacifism may never be tested, as one never knows for sure until and unless their life, or the lives of their loved ones, are threatened. I for the most part agree with and applaud your sentiments...believe me, no one values Peace more than the professional soldier.

~T

I did not know that. Times change, I suppose.

In point of fact, in the Scottish Regiments of WWII, the most often and most highly decorated men were not, strictly speaking, combatants. They were Pipers! There is more than one account of a Regiment on the verge of being pushed back when a Piper climbed to a high point and began to skirl "Scotland the Brave." No Scot can hear the Pipes and retreat. The effort was redoubled, and again the charge was made. Pipers were very often shot dead, as the Germans understood fully the psychological value of the Pipes. The Scottish Regiments have Regimental bands, as do other units, and the various musical instruments, horns, drums, etc. are listed on the Quartermaster's manifest as just that..."Musical Instruments." Not the Pipes, though. The Bagpipes are listed on a different sheet, along with rifles, mortars, grenades etc...as "Weapons of War."

~T

Personally I have nothing but respect for the armed forces, I may have joined up, however I am excluded fro medical reasons, even from being a stretcher bearer...so I had to settle for working for the RAf and Navy in the MoD...Do I get half a vote....

[greensteam]

In some European countries with compulsory military service they have positions to allow pacifists to do service as well.

In WW2 there were many brave pacifist stretcher bearers that saved many lives, some of them were decorated for bravery too.

Braver still IMHO were the COs who volunteered for the medical and biowarfare experiments at Porton Down. They probably saved lives too.

[The Kernel]

Agreed, although in the UK many CO's volunteered for "War Work" rather than join the forces in a non-combatant role.
Of note too were the "Bevin Boys" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bevin_Boys )who were called up but sent to do "War Work" rather than serve in the forces.
History showed that "War Work" - involving steel-work or deep mining had a higher individual risk of death or disability then serving in the forces.

Also re "Starship Troopers" - in the book the right to vote was earned by volunteering for "Federal Service" not just combat duties, in the film reference was made to volunteering for combat duties enabled voting rights and improving the chance to be approved to bare children, a subtle distinction.

[Lucius Voltaic]

Not to be irreverent, but it just occurred to me that, in Girl Genius, bagpipes are literal weapons of war. 

[Gazongola]

There are (at least) two occupations within military service which come immediately to my mind, occupations which could (and have) been performed by those who are dedicated, confirmed pacifists.
These supremely important functions are Corpsman ( Medic, generally known as "Doc" to his comrades,) and Chaplain ( referred to sometimes as "Sky Pilot.") Neither carry firearms, but their bravery is beyond question, as each performs his duties whilst under hostile fire, the Medic treating the wounded on the field of battle, and the Chaplain crawling forward to administer Last Rites to a dying soldier.

I do hope your pacifism may never be tested, as one never knows for sure until and unless their life, or the lives of their loved ones, are threatened. I for the most part agree with and applaud your sentiments...believe me, no one values Peace more than the professional soldier.

~T

If I do ever have to go in to active service, it will probably be in a medical role.

[popuptoaster]

I was lucky i guess, both my grandfathers came back from the second world war, both carried injuries with them until the day they died, but since them our family have not really had any first hand dealings with the armed forces and knowing what i'm like as a person and my past dealings with law makers and enforcers i consider myself lucky we dont have the draft in this country anymore, i'm not sure how i would have coped with enforced diseplin.

I do realise how lucky i am to have that choice though, and sometimes wonder exactly how i would react when in a life or death situation, i dont consider myself brave or cowardly, but i giess you never know untill given the oppertunity to find out.

[HAC]

Heard, Understood, Acknowledged!
An old Cavalry horse, put out to pasture, still pricks up his ears at the distant sound of guns, and paws the ground. Be safe, troop, and watch your six! Thank you, ( and thank your brother for me, please,) for your service! 

*****salute******

~Thistlewaite

Aye, that's true enough, although I would never want to ever have to voluntarily be in a situation that required me to raise a weapon with deadly intent against another human being, ever again..
I'm not ashamed of having taken the King's Shilling, though... (and if you want to cause a few stares at any Nov.11 ceremony, show up en kepi blanc, done that once or twice. Looong story from way back...)

Cheers
Harold

[Count Alexander]

Harold, were you in? And I hate to break it to you, but in the US... 68whiskies carry weapons, though primary function is to help people. Only people who don't carry firearms are

Chaplains.

[HAC]

I was "in" - Combat Engineer firstly, but later on did a stint as an  "Observer" and even later, a brief "attachement" to the Legion.. Spent a good 7 years in harness.. Got out at the end of my term a few years after the Canadian Forces went through the big Helllyer unification in 1968, not soon enough to miss the whole October crisis, having been in Quebec at the time..

Cheers
Harold

[Count Alexander]

I was "in" - Combat Engineer firstly, but later on did a stint as an  "Observer" and even later, a brief "attachement" to the Legion.. Spent a good 7 years in harness.. Got out at the end of my term a few years after the Canadian Forces went through the big Helllyer unification in 1968, not soon enough to miss the whole October crisis, having been in Quebec at the time..

Cheers
Harold

Interesting, well thanks for ya service...I know little of Canadian history, so most of what you said to me doesn't ring a bell... 

[HAC]

Thanks..
   Prior to 1968, Canada had the traditional "separate" Forces,  but in 1968 the Royal Canadian Navy, Canadian Army, and Royal Canadian Air Force were merged into a unified structure. So I started out in the Canadian Army, as a Combat Engineer. (5^ieme Régiment du genie de combat). As an "Observer", I was sent off to observe the US Army Engineer units and their work in SE Asia (notably the 70th Combats at An Khe). Finally did an "attachement" (think military "exchange student" ) with the Legion for a year, (which is how I got my Legion para beret and kepi blanc), being bilingual was the real asset there) to see how they worked two things- integrated everyone into a French speaking system, and how the integrated their Engineers into the force as a whole..
  It was, to say the least, interesting, educational, and at times, terrifying..

Cheers
Harold

[Sgt.Major Thistlewaite]

Harold, I'm impressed! La Legion Etrangere ( the French Foreign Legion) are the toughest soldiers this planet has yet produced, especially so during Victorian times.

Camerone!

*****salute******

~Thistlewaite

[Lucius Voltaic]

Wow, HAC, I'm impressed. What was it like, besides "interesting, educational, and...terrifying"?

[Count Alexander]

I wouldn't say toughest, there are a fair few soldiers I know who would debate that  . But service-rivalry aside, I think that is most impressive and a hand salute to you sir.

*S*
Alex L.

[Sgt.Major Thistlewaite]

I wouldn't say toughest, there are a fair few soldiers I know who would debate that  . But service-rivalry aside, I think that is most impressive and a hand salute to you sir.

*S*
Alex L.

I suppose "toughest" might be hard to define, but back in the "Beau Geste" days the Legionnaires carried a 120 lb. pack, marched 50 miles a day, and when they broke march for the night, every night, they built a palisade from locally available materials as high as the chest of the tallest man in the unit, then tore it down the next day before beginning the march again. They wore leather boots without socks  as socks were thought to contribute to foot rot. I can't find my books on the Legion, so I'm just going on memory, someone correct me if I'm wrong, please. Anyhow, I don't know if that constitutes "toughest," but that would be tougher than I wanted to try, and my daughter has called me the "toughest man on Earth" ( of course, she may be biased.  ) At Camerone, Mexico, 60 Legionnaires fought 2,000+ Mexicans to a standstill for a full day, with minimal cover. At the end of the day, having killed some 300 Mexicans, and wounded 300 more, with only three men still able to stand and completely out of ammunition, surrounded, their surrender was demanded. Their response? The remaining three fixed bayonets and charged! Tough enough?

~Thistlewaite

[TimeTinker]

When in uniform I am proud to wear the bomb on my sleeve to show my service in bomb disposal.   Whilst this was only part of my service I will happily point out that when Bomb Disposal was first developed during World War 2 a number of conscientious objectors joined and served heroically.  Many pacifists felt that risking their lives to protect others was perfectly reasonable and entered this incredibly dangerous field. Many gave their lives.  There are other ways to serve and still be true to pacifistic ideals - firefighting is another honourable profession where the brave are willing to risk their safety for the wider good.  That is the point of service. We serve for the greater good; be it the emergency services or armed forces.  When the chips are down your first loyalty is, and will ever be, to your companions and anyone with a service background knows that to be true. Anyone who has never served will never comprehend the strength of a bond which can even  mean "I actually don't like you but I would lay down my life for you". This understanding is a gift for those of us who have served.

In spite of the jokes no-one joins the army to travel the world and kill people.  You join to serve.  Service is a gift from an individual to the people.  How that service is used is up to the politicians. Never criticise anyone for having the gumption to serve.  Celebrate that fact for they may have to make the ultimate sacrifice so you may lie safe and sound in your bed.

A salute to every man and woman who has ever served in any capacity. That willingness to lay aside self for the greater good demands respect.  For those that have sacrificed their health, liberty or life in service then they deserve both respect and gratitude.

For those with a desire to serve - there are many ways, full and part time within both emergency and armed services. If you are really ready to make a gift of yourself then feel free to stand up and be counted. If you don't feel you can serve then affording respect to those that do is all that is needed.

"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

[HAC]

Wow, HAC, I'm impressed. What was it like, besides "interesting, educational, and...terrifying"?

Well.. The Legion was a very unique experience, even though I was only attached (along with a few officer-types) for not quite a year. Learned how to march "le crawl" (88 steps/min, and sing while doing it). It was overall, very Gallic, and I occasionally I'll catch myself whistling "le Boudin" or "Connaissez-vous ces hommes" whilst out on a walk. I remember some pretty tough training regimes, emphasis on "legio patria nostra" pride and esprit de corps.
 Give me a bit (not enough coffee, yet) and I'll post some remembrances.. (and no, I didn;t use my real name, was given the option of the traditional nameing, and used, it, why not, it was fun, and rather romantic. I was Alexandre Delisle (seeing as I came from Montreal, which is an island, the adjutant made "une petite blague" - a little joke, there..
 More to come..

Cheers
Harold

[chironex]

I feel such a failure for not getting a poppy this year Especially with my middle brother in Afghanistan now.

[Utini420]

performing a bit of thread necromancy here...

In Flanders Fields by Major Dr. John McCrae, read by Linus @ 2:20	DQ

[Count Alexander]

Not at all, seeing as how Pearl harbor was three days ago. Thanks Utini...

Hail to my fallen comrades...

[Mechanic]

performing a bit of thread necromancy here...
<snip>

Not seen that one before. Office seems a little dusty today.

[von Corax]

performing a bit of thread necromancy here...


In Flanders Fields by Major Dr. John McCrae, read by Linus @ 2:20

Or part of it, at least.

IMHO the last verse, which Schultz skipped, is at least as important to the spirit of the poem as the rest of it is.

[Lucius Voltaic]

In Flanders Fields by Major Dr. John McCrae, read by Linus @ 2:20

Hmm, alright, might take a look...

IMHO the last verse, which Schultz skipped, is at least as important to the spirit of the poem as the rest of it is.

...he skipped the last verse?  

[tophatdan]

provides a simple salute and a nod to the poppy