Japanese Steampunk

[Rev.Hammer]

especially in inverse ratio to uptake of MM!

[darkshines]

Wen someone says "japanese steampunk" to me, I think of opium dens, exotic fabrics and tales of conquest in the east. I guess I swing more to the factual Victorian take on Japan.....

[Pnakotus]

Forgive me for intruding, but I see him as a great subject for steampunk intrepretation!
Here is a sort of stream of conciousness recipe:
...
How would that strike you?

That sound like a good recipe. Would look pretty cool.

For myself, I'm not exactly looking to replicate Guan Yu into the steampunk world. I just want to incorporate elements from Guan Yu's image into my own outfit so that it somewhat resembles Guan Yu, but is still distinctively me. It would in a sense be three outfits ...

1 that would be Guan Yu as he is depicted off of the battle field ...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(although keeping the green theme rather than the grey of the 2nd & 3rd pics)

I think it would be a nice outfit to have for wearing to costume affairs that aren't necessarily steam themed, and occasionally wear for fun when sitting down with my friends to watch the Three Kingdoms tv show.

1 being the outfit I already have ...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then one that was my outfit for the bottom half, with Guan Yu's robes & headdress (or at least something similar to it) for the upper parts, with my sam browne belt over that, and having brown and brass wrist guards. The leather vest from the second picture of me is in the process of getting leather scale armor added to the shoulders and back, which would be worn over the robes for battle attire. I'd probably end up going for a loose long sleeved green shirt for wearing under the vest, and a robe that only goes over one shoulder to wear over the vest like I've seen some depictions of Guan Yu in his battle dress.

Since I don't have a guan dao and think that one would be way too bulky to carry around anyway, my outfit would keep my flintlock pistol on my right side and one of my khukris on my left.

For the beard I'd try to go for something like the 2nd & 3rd pictures of Guan Yu above, but there's no way I'll be able to get mine to be that long. Since I only grow my beard out in the fall and winter, I'd probably only have a longish beard for the outfit briefly in the spring before shaving into my spring hair.

And if only I could find some affordable Jue cups to drink from, that would be awesome too.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Mr. Boltneck]

There is always Hiraga Gennai:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiraga_Gennai
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elekiter
A Gakken kit for this electrostatic generator is also available: http://www.makershed.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MKGK23

[Jonny B. Goode]

To me, it's somewhat odd to talk about "Japanese steampunk", when historically, during the Meiji period, Japan was doing everything it could to appear less oriental and more western, especially to outsiders. (Not wanting to appear like those "hopelessly backwards" Chinese and Koreans, as one Japanese thinker put it.) The Victorian era was a tumultuous time for the Japanese people, seeing the end of the samurai era and the beginning of modernization.

[Lord Wraste]

To me, it's somewhat odd to talk about "Japanese steampunk", when historically, during the Meiji period, Japan was doing everything it could to appear less oriental and more western, especially to outsiders. (Not wanting to appear like those "hopelessly backwards" Chinese and Koreans, as one Japanese thinker put it.) The Victorian era was a tumultuous time for the Japanese people, seeing the end of the samurai era and the beginning of modernization.

I agree.
Though, going through some of the photographs from the era, I liked the idea of the clash of stylistic movements.
On one hand you had the die-hard traditionalists trying to keep everything the way it was, and on the other you had the New Movement reformers that wanted to super-westernize all at once.

As loath as I am to admit it, Tom Cruise' The Last Samurai does succeed in capturing a bit of that conflict.
As does Rurouni Kenshin in some ways.

I would also recommend anything Miyazaki. A few of his works have been mentioned before, but a good body of it has very SP tones.

Also, Look into anything Shinsengumi. It's all a part of what leads up to the Meiji Restoration, and the very Steampunk existence that Japan went through afterward.

[von Corax]

To me, it's somewhat odd to talk about "Japanese steampunk", when historically, during the Meiji period, Japan was doing everything it could to appear less oriental and more western, especially to outsiders. (Not wanting to appear like those "hopelessly backwards" Chinese and Koreans, as one Japanese thinker put it.) The Victorian era was a tumultuous time for the Japanese people, seeing the end of the samurai era and the beginning of modernization.

Well right there you have the perfect template for "Japanese Steampunk" — the clash between Eastern and Western cultural influences. In the "real" world, the Western aspect was dominant, but with remnants of the traditional Japanese culture still clearlly visible; in your alternate history you simply have the Traditionalists mostly prevail, although they would of course fail to completely prevent some uptake of Western influence. Whether the East was totally victorious or (perhaps more interesting) merely achieved some sort of uneasy cultural balance is, of course, entirely up to your imagination.

[Oddfellow]

It's interesting that this should come up, as just the other day I was having a conversation in the IRC channel about modern historical revisionism (my personal catch-all term for such things as Steampunk and Neo-Victorianism) and what that would consist of from a point of view other than our western one. The 19th century occurred all across the world after all, and in no small part thanks to the British and other powers cutting swathes across the globe did this period expose so much of it to each other. Incidentally circumstances flowing from this would conspire to retire much of the then-standard cultural norms across the world into the realm of tradition, thus bringing us into the modern era.

Modern historical revisionism and all its offshoots from an oriental perspective would be an interesting thing to see from an oriental point of view. I suspect however that there are other areas of such cultural richness and uniqueness that could similarly be explored, such as the Middle East. It would bring so much more into the equation to expand what we see as Steampunk to include the rest of the world.

[Choreocrat]

And no mention yet of Japanese automata?!

Karakuri ningyo (からくり人形) were wooden Japanese clockwork automata used in a few different contexts. Some of them were quite sophisticated. There's got to be something steampunk that can be worked off that.

Edit: Here's one in action:

Wooden robot in the 19th century (Karakuri Ningyo)	DQ

[Lord Wraste]

Fuaaaaa!
Ningyo ga suki desu yo!

Coreocrat,
Thank you so much for sharing that. I love Japanese culture and have never even heard of Karakuri Ningyo. I love learning something new in a subject I study!

Von Corax,
I like your thinking and agree.

[Choreocrat]

Fuaaaaa!
Ningyo ga suki desu yo!

Coreocrat,
Thank you so much for sharing that. I love Japanese culture and have never even heard of Karakuri Ningyo. I love learning something new in a subject I study!

To be fair, there were equivalents in other parts of the world as well, but the Japanese had quite a fondness for them. 俺も好きじゃ。

[Lord Wraste]

Fuaaaaa!
Ningyo ga suki desu yo!

Coreocrat,
Thank you so much for sharing that. I love Japanese culture and have never even heard of Karakuri Ningyo. I love learning something new in a subject I study!

To be fair, there were equivalents in other parts of the world as well, but the Japanese had quite a fondness for them. 俺も好きじゃ。

True, I remember seeing several automata when I visited The House On The Rock. They were fascinating, but the Japanese ones really tickle me for some reason...

[Flynn MacCallister]

Meiji Restoration Japan is marvellously steampunk, but sadly neglected in the dominant Euro-centric approach to the genre/subculture. (Note that it was by no means neglected by Gibson and Sterling in The Difference Engine!) It has all the social upheaval of the Industrial Revolution, and then some, the shifting aesthetic ideals, and the wonderful, wonderful technology!

Odd though it seems, considering it is STEAMpunk, nothing embodies for me more the feel of "my" steampunk than the mechanical robot, be it clockwork or otherwise. I'm very glad the Japanese ones have been brought up. That well-known set of Swiss (?) ones (you know, the writer, the musician, and the draftsman... at least I think that's right...) are wonderful, but there is just something about the Japanese ones that really makes me happy.

I'm heading over to Japan soon, and I'm very much looking forward to seeing some of these! I know that the Tokyo National Museum of Nature and Science have a tea-server, and I see from your link that there are others in museums in Kanazawa (the tea-server and the frog). I very much hope they are on display!

As a person of European descent, I am a little reserved about mixing and matching European and non-European clothing from this general era, because of the hangovers of imperialism and colonialism. There is just something that doesn't feel.... entirely right about it, somehow.

darkshines: The opium trade and its consumption are much more associated with China than with Japan. Opium dens in Europe tended to be Chinese-run establishments. I'm also not quite sure what is being conquered here...

[Choreocrat]

I'm assuming everyone reading this noticed the steampanku post on the blog the other day, yes?

[Flynn MacCallister]

I'm assuming everyone reading this noticed the steampanku post on the blog the other day, yes?

Noticed the word, but have not yet read it. Just skimmed over going, "yeah the Japanese do steampunk exceptionally well, probably seen it already."

... but I don't see why you would bring that up in this thread. What did I miss?

[Choreocrat]

Someone's writing about a Japanese steampunk (as in set in Japan) as their nanowrimo. I have no idea about their writing quality, but I like their idea.

http://brassgoggles.co.uk/blog/200911/sunday-miscellany-sunday-submissions - The blog post
http://steampanku.wordpress.com/ - The link lifted from said blogpost

[Flynn MacCallister]

The cads! Now it's going to look as though I copied! ;p

[Jha]

Not sure which is worse:

Victorientalism

Or

Wen someone says "japanese steampunk" to me, I think of opium dens, exotic fabrics and tales of conquest in the east. I guess I swing more to the factual Victorian take on Japan.....

Although Ottens has a wicked list. Howl's Moving Castle should be on that list.

Also, Robot Carnival for the win. I don't understand why it doesn't come up more often.

[darkshines]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, what did I say that was so wrong? Care to elaborate?

[akumabito]

And no mention yet of Japanese automata?!

Karakuri ningyo (からくり人形) were wooden Japanese clockwork automata used in a few different contexts. Some of them were quite sophisticated. There's got to be something steampunk that can be worked off that.

Edit: Here's one in action:

Wooden robot in the 19th century (Karakuri Ningyo)

You can own your own fir reasonable money!


http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/12/build_the_gakken_tea_serv.html
http://www.e-clec-tech.com/teaserver.html
http://www.e-clec-tech.com/bowshootingboy.html

Karakuri doll	DQ

[Flynn MacCallister]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, what did I say that was so wrong? Care to elaborate?

And I'm not quite sure what is so wrong with The Gatehouse's very brief summary of the idea of Victorientalism...

[Utini420]

I've been trying not to comment here, I'm hopping Jha will come in and clarify without getting defensive about it.

[Matt_Splicer]

i'm currently planning a samurai outfit for next years asylum.

The armour will be made following plans of re-enactment armour but using acrylic as it's lighter than steel, and an air cylinder will be fitted to the back with tubing leading into the Mempo (Full face mask) of the armour.


Also working on a Ninja costume, and while i know that there is strong belief that they never wore the black 'ninja suits' it will take that form with clockork apperatus such as a 'gear-bow' mounted on the forearm.

[Flynn MacCallister]

I've been trying not to comment here, I'm hopping Jha will come in and clarify without getting defensive about it.

Mmm, I wish he she would...

Darkshines, I can see why he may have objected to yours if he had not read it correctly (it threw me initially, until I switched my brain on and correctly interpreted the phrase "factual Victorian take on Japan"), but I completely fail to see what objection could be held to the essay on the Gatehouse. It's about Western perceptions, and seems fairly accurate to me.

If you have any ideas what I'm missing, though, I'd love it if you could let me know.... this has been really bothering me.

[Sgt.Major Thistlewaite]

I've been trying not to comment here, I'm hopping Jha will come in and clarify without getting defensive about it.

Mmm, I wish he would...

She, Flynn...something I find so ironic that i can barely contain my impulse to guffaw!

Some talented contraptor could build a little clockwork doll of Jha.
It could stand on a soapbox, beat a drum monotonously and pause every so often to turn in a 360 degree circle, jabbing an accusatory finger and intoning ..." Racist....racist....racist....."

Jha is not Steampunk. She just shows up now and then to accuse people of cultural insensitivity, and trot out her poor old one trick pony. She should be mindful of the old adage, "When you point a finger at someone else, there are three pointing back at you."

Bet you a dollar she responds to this post.  

The troublemaker,
Thistlewaite.