A serious question about Abney Park

[zombiefriend]

I like them, but what, exactly, makes them steampunk? They really sound more like world music than anything else. I'll notice faint steampunk elements in their music sometimes, but that's it. Anyone care to explain?

[Dr cornelius quack]

Bloody marvelous!
What a good question!
Abney Park are a Steampunk band because they say they are.
I like them too.
I'm a steampunk because I say I am.
Thematic strands within songs, common points of reference, shared interest in certain narrative forms or musical styles.
They all contribute to the conclusion that AP are a part of the scene.
Not the only steampunk band, but certainly a forerunner.
Yes, they have a 'World Music' vibe going on.
It's rather splendid.
Their choice of visual style and the gig venues that they play all add to their steampunkiness.
Ultimately, if they appeal to an audience that calls itself steampunk, then they are a steampunk band.

That's good enough for me.

Dr. Q.

[Rockula]

Bloody marvelous!
What a good question!
Abney Park are a Steampunk band because they say they are.
I like them too.
I'm a steampunk because I say I am.
Thematic strands within songs, common points of reference, shared interest in certain narrative forms or musical styles.
They all contribute to the conclusion that AP are a part of the scene.
Not the only steampunk band, but certainly a forerunner.
Yes, they have a 'World Music' vibe going on.
It's rather splendid.
Their choice of visual style and the gig venues that they play all add to their steampunkiness.
Ultimately, if they appeal to an audience that calls itself steampunk, then they are a steampunk band.

That's good enough for me.

Dr. Q.

What the man said.

[Capt. Dirigible]

As far as I can tell they started as a Goth band..it's only on their last album they 're-created' themselves as 'steampunk airship pirates'. They dress steamy..they've steam modded all their instruments and several of their newer songs have a steam theme ('The Balled of Capt Robert' and the excellent 'Airship Pirates' for example) but there's no real 'steampunk sound'...as such. It's more their appearance than their sound.

[TimeTinker]

I find the fact there is no "steampunk sound" refreshing and energising.  I hope that whilever we can have an eclectic range of sounds enjoyed by steampunks then the scene will be able to prosper as a result.  Trying to define the community into a "sound" is risky, divisive and frankly short sighted.  A mature scene need not identify with a particular style.

Abney Park are steampunk.  They have moulded themselves in that way and steampunks have accepted them as such. That's all it takes.

[StirlingSteam]

Bloody marvelous!
What a good question!
Abney Park are a Steampunk band because they say they are.
I like them too.
I'm a steampunk because I say I am.
Thematic strands within songs, common points of reference, shared interest in certain narrative forms or musical styles.
They all contribute to the conclusion that AP are a part of the scene.
Not the only steampunk band, but certainly a forerunner.
Yes, they have a 'World Music' vibe going on.
It's rather splendid.
Their choice of visual style and the gig venues that they play all add to their steampunkiness.
Ultimately, if they appeal to an audience that calls itself steampunk, then they are a steampunk band.

That's good enough for me.

Dr. Q.

Yeah, what he said. But double.  

[Capt. Dirigible]

Oh..and on the subject of AP..if anyone else is wondering how a band from Seattle came to be named after a run down Victorian Cemetery in Stoke Newington, London..(I was so I emailedl Capt Robert and asked him) and it's because he was a student at the University of London and visited said necropolis and was quite impressed by it.

[Rockula]

Oh..and on the subject of AP..if anyone else is wondering how a band from Seattle came to be named after a run down Victorian Cemetery in Stoke Newington, London..(I was so I emailedl Capt Robert and asked him) and it's because he was a student at the University of London and visited said necropolis and was quite impressed by it.

Name Dropper.

[jadedeath]

Because they allow creative types to do stuff like this:

Abney Park - The Wrong Side	DQ

with their music?

Logan

[zombiefriend]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I hope I didn't come off as "Abney Park isn't steamunk, and they suck!" I really was curious. I always considered them as such given their look and lyrics.

Thinking about how, yes, there is no definitive steampunk sound is what I've always considered, but anyways, I just wanted to see what everyone else thought.

[Vancouver Air Privateer]

I agree with all of what has been said. I also have a pet view of as Steampunk blends the modern and the Victorian, Abney park mixes elegant world music sounds with heavy industrial parts.

[Jonny B. Goode]

A lot of steampunk music, from my point of view anyway, is a mix of Industrial with European Folk music (at least at its core; each band brings in it's own flavor to the mix), and utilizing eclectic, non-traditional instruments. Abney Park certainly qualifies in that regard, bringing in some oriental sounds and their own heavily-modded instruments.

[Lucius Voltaic]

Will someone please tell me what that video is about? I commented but no one answered....

[Josh of Vernian Process]

I like them, but what, exactly, makes them steampunk? They really sound more like world music than anything else. I'll notice faint steampunk elements in their music sometimes, but that's it. Anyone care to explain?

They fit into the whole Fantasy Steampunk thing I guess. I never really got it my self.

[Utini420]

I guess I'm on the other side of the coin, VernianProcess, but we've gone down that road before:  if there was a "steampunk sound" (which there clearly is not) I would have (and pretty much did) assumed it was, basically, world music + industrial, which could also be loosly expressed as techno remixed classical music.  A lot of the other stuff folks call steampunk music leaves me flat because it just doesn't have that new stuff/old stuff blend, or is either too atmospheric or too acoustic.  When I read the original thread question, it resounded similarly to this obvious non-sequitur:  "What is it about Frontline Assembly that makes them industrial?  They really sound like techo-metal more than anything else.  I'll notice the occasional cyberpunk reference in their songs, but that's about it."

If FLA isn't Industrial, or if Abney Park isn't steampunk, then what is?

[neon_suntan]

At least it's not as silly as the whole "no True goth would ever claim to be a goth", where the many of the bands that Goths followed always denied they had anything to do with the scene...




On a separate note -

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It would be interesting from a socilogical perspective to investigate the very moment when Abney Park reinvented themselves and what motivated them, and how the fans of their ealier albums reacted...

[Utini420]

I can tell you from personal observation that at DragonCon 2008 they were full-on airship pirates, but at DragonCon 2006 they were basically Cruxshadows without the faeries, at least on first impression walking by the table, never having heard of them before.

From what I understand (this comes partly from talking to the band, party from talking to their fans, and party from seeing them on tour both before and after they got all sepia) they knew full well they were a goth band, but kids started showing up to their shows dressed steampunk.  It looked like a fun break from all the black, so they sorta went that way a little, which further encouraged the costume punkers, and a nice little feedback loop was established.  You're millage will vary as to how much credence you give that story and what it means as far as being "really steampunk," if such a value in fact exists.

[Josh of Vernian Process]

I guess I'm on the other side of the coin, VernianProcess, but we've gone down that road before:  if there was a "steampunk sound" (which there clearly is not) I would have (and pretty much did) assumed it was, basically, world music + industrial, which could also be loosly expressed as techno remixed classical music.  A lot of the other stuff folks call steampunk music leaves me flat because it just doesn't have that new stuff/old stuff blend, or is either too atmospheric or too acoustic.  When I read the original thread question, it resounded similarly to this obvious non-sequitur:  "What is it about Frontline Assembly that makes them industrial?  They really sound like techo-metal more than anything else.  I'll notice the occasional cyberpunk reference in their songs, but that's about it."

If FLA isn't Industrial, or if Abney Park isn't steampunk, then what is?

Disclaimer: The following bears no reflection on the opinions of the band Vernian Process, just on those of their singer Josh.

I have really tried to get into their music for the past few years, but outside of a few tracks I really don't get it.

Of course I also don't really consider them to be Industrial influenced at all. Maybe more modern EBM/Futurepop. When I think of Industrial my mind goes to Einstürzende Neubauten, Throbbing Gristle, Cabaret Voltaire, SPK, Skinny Puppy, etc. If they had any of that style in their sound, I'd probably be more interested in them. Of course they would also be alienating their fan base, who seem to prefer music that isn't so harsh and loud.

If I could compare anyone else to them it would be The Crüxshadows. I will admit they fill the niche for the Steampunk poster child band. Non-offensive, family friendly and easily digested.

I'm not saying they are bad, or that people shouldn't listen to them. I'm just saying as an individual they just don't really do it for me.

[Utini420]

Damn, dude.  Have any of those groups put out an album in the last 10 years?

I will not, in any way, debate that those are fine examples of what Industrial was in the 80s.  Especially Skinny Puppy, love me some Puppy.  Obviously I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but there's been some good stuff that sounds very different but is still totally industrial -- Velvet Acid Christ doesn't sound much at all like Throbing Gristle, for instance.  Measuring current stuff by Einstürzende Neubauten would be like saying Dethklok isn't metal because they don't sound like Judas Priest.

Maybe there's a fancy new word for post-rave, post-industrial, post-EBM, music that's fast, dark, sample heavy, and prone to mix in lots of wierd shit.  But I don't know it (and I got sick of worrying about subgenras after a few years in the rave scene) so I just call most stuff that's aggressive and synthetic industrial.  Which, granted, is about as far from Abney Park as you can get.  I guess my point here is that I don't find it very useful to cling too tightly to genre names and particulars, particularly sub-genres, despite seeing a high value in their general use.

I'm gonna go out on a limb, Josh, and speculate that in meatspace you and I could pass untold hours playing each other tracks and "arguing" (in the friendliest sense) over which things fit where in the great spider web of techno influences.  Its just in the terminology that we differ.  As proof, the first comment I ever made to anyone about Abney Park was walking by their table at Dragon and telling my friend (a con virgin) who asked who they were, "Not-Cruxshadows."

[neon_suntan]

Very interesting!

Wish I could find that old pic of them all dresed in black "back in the day"

A further question
Being somewhat in the dark about the big Conventions in America, would it be fair assessment that AP built up their Sp fanbase by playing as many Conventions as possible rather than by 'normal' gigs? It's not a criticism in fact it's a very astute way of building a fanbase.

But is it what really happened?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And Throbbing Gristle have put out at least one or two albums in the last 10 years 

[Josh of Vernian Process]

Damn, dude.  Have any of those groups put out an album in the last 10 years?

I will not, in any way, debate that those are fine examples of what Industrial was in the 80s.  Especially Skinny Puppy, love me some Puppy.  Obviously I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but there's been some good stuff that sounds very different but is still totally industrial -- Velvet Acid Christ doesn't sound much at all like Throbing Gristle, for instance.  Measuring current stuff by Einstürzende Neubauten would be like saying Dethklok isn't metal because they don't sound like Judas Priest.

Maybe there's a fancy new word for post-rave, post-industrial, post-EBM, music that's fast, dark, sample heavy, and prone to mix in lots of wierd shit.  But I don't know it (and I got sick of worrying about subgenras after a few years in the rave scene) so I just call most stuff that's aggressive and synthetic industrial.  Which, granted, is about as far from Abney Park as you can get.

I'm gonna go out on a limb, Josh, and speculate that in meatspace you and I could pass untold hours playing each other tracks and "arguing" (in the friendliest sense) over which things fit where in the great spider web of techno influences.  Its just in the terminology that we differ.  As proof, the first comment I ever made to anyone about Abney Park was walking by their table at Dragon and telling my friend (a con virgin) who asked who they were, "Not-Cruxshadows."

I'm sure we could spend many moons discussing many styles of music my friend =)

I would say that the whole thing with using the term Industrial, is that I expect to hear music that makes me think of  "Industrial" (as defined in my previous post). The word means about as much as Emo or Indie when describing music these days.

Being somewhat in the dark about the big Conventions in America, would it be fair assessment that AP built up their Sp fanbase by playing as many Conventions as possible rather than by 'normal' gigs? It's not a criticism in fact it's a very astute way of building a fanbase.

I would say that sounds about right, and that also explains why their fan base is primarily of the cos-play variety. I never really picked up on that before you mentioned it.

[neon_suntan]

yes "industrial music" is a confusing one, I used to be convinced it was Front 242, Pigface, KMFDM, Ministry etc 

But the whole post industrial/neofolk/industrial/pagan/martial industrial scene is even more bewildering.

[Mr. Hatchett]

Damn, dude.  Have any of those groups put out an album in the last 10 years?

Skinny Puppy has been keeping busy.  You can argue that the new lineup isn't Skinny Puppy, but the sound is relatively consistent.

[Utini420]

I would make that argument, in fact.    If it ain't got no Nivek, it ain't no Puppy.  Their new stuff doesn't have that "horror movie soundtrack" edge I always associated with them.  (Not that many horror movies would be cool enough for a Puppy soundtrack).

[salubri1]

Steampunk music seems to be so eclectic that the visual style and lyrical content make it different than whatever real genre the music would fit in. 

Abney Park was absolutely a gothic band prior to this wave of Steampunkiness and their topics, and visuals proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.  When they went the way of steampunk, other bands followed them.  Voltaire started it up and whether or not that was a direct influence of AP, his sound certainly didn’t change much.  That band that played with AP a while back Platform 1 is about as Gothic as you can get without begging the dead to start raving in front of your stage and they were there as a steampunk band.  Vernian Process sounds more like a techno electro pop band but they were there at Steamcon.  Deadly Nightshade Botanical Society is heavy world music with a hint of Old Abney Park, thanks to the remnant members.  Unwoman to Rasputina… the list goes on and on.

The topics, clothes and general ‘band theme’ make the band the genre.  Just like the goth genre before it, where ANY kind of music could be goth if there was enough black involved, steampunk, the actual compositions can be quite diverse. 

If I was to say why is Abney Park steampunk, I would go with the first poster in some degree.  They say they are, they dress the part but they are just fun.  They are fun on stage, they hop around like maniacs, they talk to the crowd and carry on conversations that seem down to earth.  They seem to be enjoying what they do.

When I went to Steam Con, I noticed that they were hanging out and laughing with their fans.  Unwoman was much like that too. 

There’s a lot of pretentiousness in Steampunk.  That will plague it for a long time because it happened in the goth community too.  Perhaps the nicest thing about Abney Park is that they are, for the most part, nice to their fans and accessible.  Other bands are just too rude to approach and are lucky that there’s an internet community to avoid direct communication with them.