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Author Topic: Modern Airships  (Read 1892 times)
greatestescaper
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« on: October 16, 2009, 05:00:30 am »

Well, I am very new to this incredible forum, so I believe this is my introduction.  After reading numerous and detailed conversations about airships I thought that this article I came across while researching the Hindenburg for an English paper was worth sharing.  So here it is:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/769642.stm

http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/cargolifter/

My apologies if these have been previously posted and/or if I posted them in the incorrect location.
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Josh of Vernian Process
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« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2009, 05:57:13 pm »

Well, I am very new to this incredible forum, so I believe this is my introduction.  After reading numerous and detailed conversations about airships I thought that this article I came across while researching the Hindenburg for an English paper was worth sharing.  So here it is:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/769642.stm

http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/cargolifter/

My apologies if these have been previously posted and/or if I posted them in the incorrect location.


I believe someone posted the second one awhile ago (but it is probably buried deep with the recesses of the forum by now).

Articles on Airships are always welcome as far as I'm concerned. Wink
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greatestescaper
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« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2009, 09:04:24 pm »

What I wouldn't do to fly, well captain really, one of these beauties.  I'd love to see a fleet of these.  I've also wished, as I'm sure more than half the members of the forum would as well, that some eccentric rich person would fund a construction of the Hindenburg and it's fleet.  After all, the original design for the ship called for helium not hydrogen.
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steamtastic
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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2009, 01:07:08 am »

After all, the original design for the ship called for helium not hydrogen.

Really? You learn something new everyday!

Anyway, will these airships be anything like the old ones? Basically beautiful airship in the sky, big enough for ballrooms and your own cabin and........
« Last Edit: October 17, 2009, 11:56:48 am by steamtastic » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2009, 05:08:43 am »

Would a Hot Air Balloon be victorian??? If so then I shall make my own!
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greatestescaper
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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2009, 05:26:47 am »

When I finish my paper maybe I could post it somewhere.  But yes it was originally designed for helium which was part of the reason for it being larger than the Graf Zeppelin because helium is denser than hydrogen.  However, the Americans had a monopoly on helium and producing it and they (we) refused to sell it to anyone, particularly Nazi Germany(at this point Goebbels had taken control of the Hindenburg project) and so in a manner it was partially the fault of the Americans that the Hindenburg went up in flames.
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TheBladeRoden
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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2009, 05:38:53 am »

What I wouldn't do to fly, well captain really, one of these beauties.  I'd love to see a fleet of these.  I've also wished, as I'm sure more than half the members of the forum would as well, that some eccentric rich person would fund a construction of the Hindenburg and it's fleet.  After all, the original design for the ship called for helium not hydrogen.

Perhaps that is indeed part of Richard Heene's grand scheme!
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Orwin
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« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2009, 01:52:27 pm »

There's also turtle airships, which I think are nifty if anything actually happens with them much.  Of course, chances are nothing will.  They seem sketchy, and there are apparently a bunch of lighter-than-air enthusiasts that are quite skeptical about their designs.
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Vagabond GentleMan
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« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2009, 01:22:51 am »

Yeah, the gargantuan airships are cool and all, but I'd be more interested in constructing a two-person backyard junk-cobbled ultra-lite-type airship.  One small enough that you might be able to fly it without a license.  Helium, not Hydrogen.
But like all airships, wind is always a problematic factor, and a small one might be as a leaf to a kitten.  Sad
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aquafortis
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« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2009, 01:35:44 am »

In Britain at least, foot-launched aircraft can be flown without a pilot's license or indeed any regulatory nonsense at all. My assumption, and that of the CAA, I'd think, is that anyone who can build a foot-launched aircraft that works well enough to bear the name is likely to be fairly sensible about flying it. I'm unsure about baloons, although I'd consider towing a corner reflector with me to at least be visible to ATC... also bear in mind that any effective baloon system is capable of reaching enormous altitudes and potentially straying into controlled airspace, or simply elevating its operator to lethally airless heights. So an altimeter would be advisable, as well as a means of getting down.

So there are technical considerations to be mulled over, but I've no doubt it is possible. have fun Smiley Legal? ask the FAA, they'll know.
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Vagabond GentleMan
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« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2009, 02:47:53 am »

I've checked the laws, it would be legal in my area (Northern Virginia) if under a certain weight (of all things), unless I tried to fly into Washington DC, where it would immediately become illegal and I could very possible be shot down.

Thanks for the heads up on the potential technical considerations...to be honest, I'm more an artist, and my housemate is more the contraptionist.  We're conspiring...I'll have him read your post.
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markf
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« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2009, 02:58:20 pm »

Yeah, the gargantuan airships are cool and all, but I'd be more interested in constructing a two-person backyard junk-cobbled ultra-lite-type airship.  One small enough that you might be able to fly it without a license.  Helium, not Hydrogen.
But like all airships, wind is always a problematic factor, and a small one might be as a leaf to a kitten.  Sad

Any 2 person aircraft, even if at/less than the 254 lb ultralight weight class (for uninflated airships in this category) requires both an FAA certification for the airship and a pilot's license for the 'driver'.  markf
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Vagabond GentleMan
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« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2009, 07:36:08 pm »

Really?  Federal or State law?  I only looked into State Law, and perhaps too briefly.  Any recommendations on where I might research the appropriate regulations in-depth?
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markf
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« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2009, 01:44:08 pm »

These are Federal regulations applicable to all states and enforced by the FAA.  The basic overview of the regulations governing amateur built aircraft of all types (both ultralights and experimental) are at the PDF, and the BG thread under it actually has a comprehensive discussion as well as other regulatory references.  markf

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/d08fa9393154b636862569ba006f6d7f/$FILE/ATTLMVEO/AC90-89A.pdf

http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,19346.0.html
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WickedPenguin
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« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2009, 02:20:39 pm »

I'd love to see someone cobble together an Alberto Santos-Dumont styled airship. What would you really need? A small, low-CC engine, an aluminum structure strong enough to support one or two people plus the engine, a rudder and elevator, some gas venting controls,

Also, yes, the FAA's quite strict about what you can call an aircraft. If you've seen Mythbusters, when they created that prop-driven "jetpack" they had to get the FAA to come in to log it as a registered Experimental aircraft.

There are also quite a few rules regarding who can fly them and where you can fly them.

Quote
§ 91.313   Restricted category civil aircraft: Operating limitations.

(a) No person may operate a restricted category civil aircraft—
(1) For other than the special purpose for which it is certificated; or
(2) In an operation other than one necessary to accomplish the work activity directly associated with that special purpose.

(b) For the purpose of paragraph (a) of this section, operating a restricted category civil aircraft to provide flight crewmember training in a special purpose operation for which the aircraft is certificated is considered to be an operation for that special purpose.

(c) No person may operate a restricted category civil aircraft carrying persons or property for compensation or hire. For the purposes of this paragraph, a special purpose operation involving the carriage of persons or material necessary to accomplish that operation, such as crop dusting, seeding, spraying, and banner towing (including the carrying of required persons or material to the location of that operation), and operation for the purpose of providing flight crewmember training in a special purpose operation, are not considered to be the carriage of persons or property for compensation or hire.

(d) No person may be carried on a restricted category civil aircraft unless that person—
(1) Is a flight crewmember;
(2) Is a flight crewmember trainee;
(3) Performs an essential function in connection with a special purpose operation for which the aircraft is certificated; or
(4) Is necessary to accomplish the work activity directly associated with that special purpose.

(e) Except when operating in accordance with the terms and conditions of a certificate of waiver or special operating limitations issued by the Administrator, no person may operate a restricted category civil aircraft within the United States—
(1) Over a densely populated area;
(2) In a congested airway; or
(3) Near a busy airport where passenger transport operations are conducted.

(f) This section does not apply to nonpassenger-carrying civil rotorcraft external-load operations conducted under part 133 of this chapter.


BTW, I hate that the FAA requires experimental airplanes to identify themselves as "Experimental [Call sign]". At least, if a plane identifies itself as Cessna or Citation or Piper, I know what I'm getting. With "experimental", I don't know if I'm getting a 60 knot ultralight or a 280 knot Lancair IV or a 400 knot L-39 Albratross jet. It makes it a little hairy.
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Atterton
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« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2017, 07:49:19 pm »

You might have heard that Amazon are planning to deliver orders by drones. Turns out they want this to be done from floating airship warehouses.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/12/29/amazons-flying-warehouses-dispatch-drone-deliveries-sky/
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2017, 08:02:14 pm »



 From articles published in the meda,  there are several forms of airship in development; from small  remote control ed craft to large passenger/ cargo  ships.   

 - Some have more ' grace '   than others

 Yes it would be awe inspiring to view a fleet  of air ship  hoving  into view on the horizon 
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19th Century Space Pilot
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« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2017, 09:09:14 pm »

BTW, I hate that the FAA requires experimental airplanes to identify themselves as "Experimental [Call sign]". At least, if a plane identifies itself as Cessna or Citation or Piper, I know what I'm getting. With "experimental", I don't know if I'm getting a 60 knot ultralight or a 280 knot Lancair IV or a 400 knot L-39 Albratross jet. It makes it a little hairy.

How are call signs assigned? Could a protocol be developed where the call sign would tell you which of the different categories of experimental aircraft you're dealing with? For example, the Experimental AS-85-100 would tell you it's an airship, masses in at 5 tonnes, and is capable of flying at 60 knots. Whereas, if you hear Experimental JP-450, you're dealing with a jetpack...
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