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Author Topic: league of extrordinary gentlemen  (Read 3344 times)
abney park fan
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« on: October 16, 2009, 01:15:30 am »

i saw league of extraordinary gentlemen. would that qualify as steampunk?
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Simon Hogwood
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« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2009, 02:12:23 am »

Yes.  Smiley

Bear in mind, some (in my opinion over-critical) people would say it's not a very good example, but it's definitely one of the more prominent cinematic examples.
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« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2009, 02:37:51 am »

i saw league of extraordinary gentlemen. would that qualify as steampunk?

Just make sure to read the Graphic Novels so you can get the real story.
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« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2009, 04:18:45 am »

Yes.  Smiley

Bear in mind, some (in my opinion over-critical) people would say it's not a very good example, but it's definitely one of the more prominent cinematic examples.

I thought it was good movie....up until the ending where the one person took the Jekyll potion and room to room fighting took place...it was a bit long there and upsetting for my young ones.....but otherwise, I thought it was a good steamy movie.
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« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2009, 10:36:31 am »

I LOVE that film!!and watch it on a regular basis, probably a bit too much.
Hmm, not very steampunky but fantastically Victorian/Edwardian.
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Mr Peter Harrow, Esq
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« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2009, 09:11:10 am »

It is the adaption of something quite definitively steampunk and original by people who do not understand either steampunk or the original source material. Mr Moore was quite right to dissassociate himself from it.

The film I relatively entertaining, but it is NOT the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2009, 09:41:35 am »

Ive wanted to read the book for a fair while.
Who is the author of the original book?Im sure in my searches its come up with different versions so Id like to know which one to go for.
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chicar
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« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2009, 03:15:11 pm »

It used to be my favorite movie before i find EVER MORE better. But keep in mind, i never be able to read the original comic book graphic novel (blah, what a pretentious term).
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« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2009, 04:49:00 pm »

My friend, the original is most definitely a Graphic Novel.

Comic books don't cost that much.
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« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2009, 06:20:09 pm »

It is the adaption of something quite definitively steampunk and original by people who do not understand either steampunk or the original source material. Mr Moore was quite right to dissassociate himself from it.

The film I relatively entertaining, but it is NOT the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

Mr Moore disassociates himself from film in general, so to say that he disassociates himself from something that is filmed is par for the course.

He even disassociated himself from Watchmen, which was practically a shot-for-shot remake of his graphic novel.

Funny that you mention that it's not League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, that's what the title of the movie is, and they call themselves the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen in the movie itself.

Either my eyes and ears are wrong, or you are, and I have more faith in my eyes and ears than random folks from the internet.

Logan
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« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2009, 07:06:43 pm »

You know, I found myself particularly excited for the film upon hearing of it's making and what not, as I read most, if not all of the books the characters were taken from, having relatively no idea about the graphic novel whatsoever. I was excited by the idea that the characters were who they were, however, I was slightly disheartened at some of the turns it took, however, I did enjoy it. (I did believe that it wasn't all right, somethings didn't fit as I hoped... I cant put my finger on exactly what it was)
Around the same time, however, I did rather enjoy "Van Helsing" which was a most interesting twist on the classic romantic horrors and early science fictions, also quite steamy...
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« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2009, 09:34:47 pm »

Either my eyes and ears are wrong, or you are, and I have more faith in my eyes and ears than random folks from the internet.

Logan

Well that doesn't really say anything. Because the film makers could have called it anything, and it wouldn't have been anywhere nearly as well constructed as the Graphic Novels (and I don't see how that is a pretentious term Chicar?).

Lets put it this way, the Graphic Novels are witty, clever, well constructed, have a lot of character development, have interesting plot twists, and are absolutely gorgeous, and original.

When I read that it was being adapted into a film, I withheld my reservations, and went to go see it opening weekend. I almost walked out of the film about fifteen times, but kept holding out hoping something would get better. But no what I saw on that screen that fateful night was a travesty, and a horrible attempt by Hollywood to turn this amazing story into a kidified, watered down super hero movie.

They completely dumbed down the plot, replaced key characters with more familiar western one's. Tom Sawyer!?? WTF Seriously! Tom Sawyer would have been older than Alan Quartermain by the year the movie took place. And Dorian Grey?? Come on... just use the original League! Don't make Mina Harker a cheesy vampire with crappy effects (she never once turns into a bat like creature in the comics either), and why couldn't they let Mina be the leader of the group like she was in the original!?. Don't name drop the novels each character came from, and for god's sake get a real writer. The dialog in that movie was atrocious throughout the entirety of the film.

If you can't tell yet, I hate that film with every fiber of my being. It took away 2 hours of my life, and crushed my soul. It is a blight, and it should never have been filmed.

In fact I think I'll start referring to it as "The film that shall not be named".
« Last Edit: October 18, 2009, 10:22:32 pm by VernianProcess » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2009, 10:45:24 pm »

Well that doesn't really say anything. Because the film makers could have called it anything, and it wouldn't have been anywhere nearly as well constructed as the Graphic Novels (and I don't see how that is a pretentious term Chicar?).

Lets put it this way, the Graphic Novels are witty, clever, well constructed, have a lot of character development, have interesting plot twists, and are absolutely gorgeous, and original.

When I read that it was being adapted into a film, I withheld my reservations, and went to go see it opening weekend. I almost walked out of the film about fifteen times, but kept holding out hoping something would get better. But no what I saw on that screen that fateful night was a travesty, and a horrible attempt by Hollywood to turn this amazing story into a kidified, watered down super hero movie.

They completely dumbed down the plot, replaced key characters with more familiar western one's. Tom Sawyer!?? WTF Seriously! Tom Sawyer would have been older than Alan Quartermain by the year the movie took place. And Dorian Grey?? Come on... just use the original League! Don't make Mina Harker a cheesy vampire with crappy effects (she never once turns into a bat like creature in the comics either), and why couldn't they let Mina be the leader of the group like she was in the original!?. Don't name drop the novels each character came from, and for god's sake get a real writer. The dialog in that movie was atrocious throughout the entirety of the film.

If you can't tell yet, I hate that film with every fiber of my being. It took away 2 hours of my life, and crushed my soul. It is a blight, and it should never have been filmed.

In fact I think I'll start referring to it as "The film that shall not be named".

This is almost better than a Star Wars discussion for the whinyness of the fanboys.

Here's a clue, Film is different from graphic novels {yeah, I don't see the problem with that term either} in order to dump all the elements of a graphic novel into a film, it'd have to be like Watchmen and be at least 3 hours long.

In a cast where you have 6 main characters {at least} and all of them have to be introduced and their powers and a bit of their backstory explained, some things have to get sacrificed, you can't have massive amounts of character development if you need to take the story in 6 different ways. That, sir, is simple writing.

Short of them doing what Marvel is doing now with the Avengers and setting up 5-6 2hour movie prequels to the big ensemble finale, you have to realize that somewhere along the line something was going to suffer in just 1 2 hour movie.

In the end it was a rather enjoyable movie, it wasn't perfect steampunk following the rules that people who seem to want to write down clever little rules as to what is and isn't steampunk have set for themselves, and nor should it be.

Just let the people who like it, continue to like it without all the fanboy crying and hair pulling, stomping of feet etc.

Unless, of course you feel contrary to what everyone else felt and think that Tom Bombadill should have been left in the Lord of the Rings?

Things change, and you have to change certain things in order to get them into movies.

Logan
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Josh of Vernian Process
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« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2009, 11:08:21 pm »

Well that doesn't really say anything. Because the film makers could have called it anything, and it wouldn't have been anywhere nearly as well constructed as the Graphic Novels (and I don't see how that is a pretentious term Chicar?).

Lets put it this way, the Graphic Novels are witty, clever, well constructed, have a lot of character development, have interesting plot twists, and are absolutely gorgeous, and original.

When I read that it was being adapted into a film, I withheld my reservations, and went to go see it opening weekend. I almost walked out of the film about fifteen times, but kept holding out hoping something would get better. But no what I saw on that screen that fateful night was a travesty, and a horrible attempt by Hollywood to turn this amazing story into a kidified, watered down super hero movie.

They completely dumbed down the plot, replaced key characters with more familiar western one's. Tom Sawyer!?? WTF Seriously! Tom Sawyer would have been older than Alan Quartermain by the year the movie took place. And Dorian Grey?? Come on... just use the original League! Don't make Mina Harker a cheesy vampire with crappy effects (she never once turns into a bat like creature in the comics either), and why couldn't they let Mina be the leader of the group like she was in the original!?. Don't name drop the novels each character came from, and for god's sake get a real writer. The dialog in that movie was atrocious throughout the entirety of the film.

If you can't tell yet, I hate that film with every fiber of my being. It took away 2 hours of my life, and crushed my soul. It is a blight, and it should never have been filmed.

In fact I think I'll start referring to it as "The film that shall not be named".

This is almost better than a Star Wars discussion for the whinyness of the fanboys.

Here's a clue, Film is different from graphic novels {yeah, I don't see the problem with that term either} in order to dump all the elements of a graphic novel into a film, it'd have to be like Watchmen and be at least 3 hours long.

In a cast where you have 6 main characters {at least} and all of them have to be introduced and their powers and a bit of their backstory explained, some things have to get sacrificed, you can't have massive amounts of character development if you need to take the story in 6 different ways. That, sir, is simple writing.

Short of them doing what Marvel is doing now with the Avengers and setting up 5-6 2hour movie prequels to the big ensemble finale, you have to realize that somewhere along the line something was going to suffer in just 1 2 hour movie.

In the end it was a rather enjoyable movie, it wasn't perfect steampunk following the rules that people who seem to want to write down clever little rules as to what is and isn't steampunk have set for themselves, and nor should it be.

Just let the people who like it, continue to like it without all the fanboy crying and hair pulling, stomping of feet etc.

Unless, of course you feel contrary to what everyone else felt and think that Tom Bombadill should have been left in the Lord of the Rings?

Things change, and you have to change certain things in order to get them into movies.

Logan

Let's get one thing straight. I am not a fanboy of anything except Studio Ghibli (who can do no wrong imho). I just happen to think the original is one of (if not) the best representations of Steampunk ever created in the comic medium. I fully understand that a film has to sacrifice elements of it's original version to fit into 2 hours. However, the film that shall not be named failed to deliver those elements in a non-cheesy/hokey/poorly written way.

It wouldn't have been hard to introduce each character without the whole thing going over the top. The original story plays the setting straight. It takes everything fairly seriously, with knowing moments of humor tied in, that a clever reader will notice. When a new character is introduced, it feels realistic. It works with the context of the story, and best of all it is very brief. The film was just playing everything over the top. Almost like a Schumacher Batman entry. It ruined the mood of the original, it took nothing of value, and was basically a completely different story. They should have just come up with a new franchise.

I really don't care what anyone says, because I know deep down how bad this film was.
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« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2009, 11:36:45 pm »

I'm a fan of the film and the graphic novels! While I agree the film is by no means an adequate representation of the books I find it still has a certain charm. You just have to embrace the cheese-factor and look at it more as something inspired by rather than based on Alan Moore's work. It just needs to be enjoyed as a bit of light-hearted entertainment. Also I find these movie remakes tend to inspire people to read the original novels (many of whom may not necesarily have even thought about it before), which in my opinion can only be a good thing. The more, the merrier and all that!
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« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2009, 11:49:59 pm »

I thought and think it is a bit of fun and not worth getting overanxious about. The sets have lots of good detail and the whole nonsense moves along at a reasonable pace. I dont look for much beyond entertainment in my entertainment. I havent read the graphic novels as I find my eyesight cannot cope with most of the fonts and type sizings in them.

Anyone who hopes for utter faithfulness in a conversion from a book to a film is generally going to be disappointed. Since all are fictional characters set in fictional situations, pinning down precise ages and chronologies is always going to be a matter of personal taste.

My biggest gripe is that the exterior of the Nautilus is lovely but the inside is boring and altogether on the wrong scale for the external size and shape..

Lots of nice inspiration for gadgets and clothes though. Why not settle down with a glass of some favourite bevvy, snacks, leave your analytical self elsewhere and suspend your disbelief for an evening's entertainment?
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« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2009, 12:00:50 am »

There is exactly one adaption that Mr Moore is happy with, it is actually a fan film, and I would need to rummage to find it, and its title, it aired at Eastercon this year.

Yes you can sacrifice elements and still have a reasonable adaption of an original source. V For Vendetta and the Watchmen by necessity cut elements, but retain the spirit and feel of Mr Moore's invention or at least try to. League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (film)dispenses with the characters, plot, dialogue, and substitutes its own. There is no enough left to be recognizable as the original source material. On that basis the use of the graphic novels title make it merely a false promise. The film is NOT The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen it is a false description of the film actually delivered. It is like seeing in the TV Guide a film one is interested in only to find it is a totally different film with the same title, not a remake, a totally unrelated film.
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« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2009, 12:14:21 am »

I liked the inclusion of Dorian Gray though, even if I can see why that wouldn´t have worked in the comics. His death could not be easily faked.
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« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2009, 12:21:44 am »

I havent read the graphic novels as I find my eyesight cannot cope with most of the fonts and type sizings in them.

You won't notice the flaws if you have nothing to reference it to. The Graphic Novel has a completely different mood and the film doesn't even attempt to capture that. It has nothing to do with accuracy, or anything like that. It's just not even close to the spirit of the novels.
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« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2009, 12:27:40 am »

I´ve heard the movie rights was bought before the comics was even done, I suppose that´s part of the reason why the plot is so different.
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« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2009, 12:37:17 am »

I havent read the graphic novels as I find my eyesight cannot cope with most of the fonts and type sizings in them.

You won't notice the flaws if you have nothing to reference it to. The Graphic Novel has a completely different mood and the film doesn't even attempt to capture that. It has nothing to do with accuracy, or anything like that. It's just not even close to the spirit of the novels.

I have a strange question.

Do you even READ the things that you're quoting?

It was mentioned by the person that you're quoting that they can't handle the font sizes and style, DUE TO THEIR EYESIGHT.

Meaning, that they don't wish to read it because it would put strain on their eyes, now, most reasonable folk would leave it at that and understand why they don't feel the need to read something that would cause them undue annoyance, but oh no, not you.

Not only that, {in the portions that you didn't quote, which since you didn't read the part that you DID quote, I don't expect that you read any of the rest of it either} but they mentioned that they want entertainment in their entertainment and they don't feel the need to nitpick everything to death for lack of anything else exciting in their lives to do, unlike, some folk here apparently...

Let's get one thing straight. I am not a fanboy of anything except Studio Ghibli (who can do no wrong imho). I just happen to think the original is one of (if not) the best representations of Steampunk ever created in the comic medium. I fully understand that a film has to sacrifice elements of it's original version to fit into 2 hours. However, the film that shall not be named failed to deliver those elements in a non-cheesy/hokey/poorly written way.

That's a matter of opinion, some people like it, others don't.

I'm never sure why that is so hard for people to understand, different people have different opinions.

I know that's scary, but folks can like stuff that's not covered in the 'big bible of steampunk'.

Quote
It wouldn't have been hard to introduce each character without the whole thing going over the top. The original story plays the setting straight. It takes everything fairly seriously, with knowing moments of humor tied in, that a clever reader will notice. When a new character is introduced, it feels realistic. It works with the context of the story, and best of all it is very brief. The film was just playing everything over the top. Almost like a Schumacher Batman entry. It ruined the mood of the original, it took nothing of value, and was basically a completely different story. They should have just come up with a new franchise.

How many screenplays have you written, and of those how many have been for big Hollywood studios?

It didn't ruin the mood of the original, like one other person mentioned here, I am a fan of both, I can see why they made the changes that they did, and the Dorrian Grey character was well placed and excellently portrayed by the actor in question.

It's a movie, unless you feel that absolutely everything in every movie you ever watch should be absolutely realistic, you're going to be disappointed by a great deal of movies that are released every year.

I'd suggest you avoid Kung-fu movies specifically.

Then again, it's a steampunk-ish movie, and we all know how hyper-realistic that steampunk is. You might want to avoid anything steampunk related as sometimes it's just not realistic enough for you.  

Quote
I really don't care what anyone says, because I know deep down how bad this film was.

Again, matter of opinion, which is different from fact.

Logan
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Josh of Vernian Process
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« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2009, 12:53:11 am »

I don't know why you are trying to start a fight, but I didn't say anything to offend the person that said they can't read the comic. I simply stated that without previous knowledge of the story and it's style, it would be very hard to tell how flawed the movie really is.

You were putting words into my mouth in your last reply, and I simply can't deal with trying to communicate with people like that.

Enjoy your movie, I'm not trying to tell you not to watch it. I was simply sharing my honest opinion to the OP.

Read Peter Harrow's comment, that pretty much says everything I am trying to say here.

« Last Edit: October 19, 2009, 01:18:59 am by VernianProcess » Logged
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« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2009, 01:21:01 am »

So, I just read through most the this thread and I've got a few things to say to jadedeath/Logan:

You need to calm down. You seem to be attacking everybody because of their views on graphic novel vs. film of graphic novel. Can you not just take peoples opinions and let them go? I mean, peoples opinions that differ from yours.
I realize I'm not in the argument that has been taking place, but it really stresses me out when I read such things. Someone thought that the graphic novel was better than the movie and you shouldn't start a fight about it. Making points about what is different in the movie than the novel is a normal thing to do. People do that with Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter and pretty much every single movie that is based off of a book. Just calm down. Please.
We are supposed to be courteous people.


As for my opinion:
I liked the movie. I've never read the graphic novel and I don't really think I'm going to unless I run into it somewhere, just because I'm not that interested in graphic novels and I was satisfied with what the movie gave me. I'm sure it's a great read....I just would rather read other things.
Without reading the graphic novel, I thought the film was well done and the characters were very believable. I would definitely classify it as a steampunk film.
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« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2009, 02:01:42 am »

Well that doesn't really say anything. Because the film makers could have called it anything, and it wouldn't have been anywhere nearly as well constructed as the Graphic Novels (and I don't see how that is a pretentious term Chicar?).

Lets put it this way, the Graphic Novels are witty, clever, well constructed, have a lot of character development, have interesting plot twists, and are absolutely gorgeous, and original.

When I read that it was being adapted into a film, I withheld my reservations, and went to go see it opening weekend. I almost walked out of the film about fifteen times, but kept holding out hoping something would get better. But no what I saw on that screen that fateful night was a travesty, and a horrible attempt by Hollywood to turn this amazing story into a kidified, watered down super hero movie.

They completely dumbed down the plot, replaced key characters with more familiar western one's. Tom Sawyer!?? WTF Seriously! Tom Sawyer would have been older than Alan Quartermain by the year the movie took place. And Dorian Grey?? Come on... just use the original League! Don't make Mina Harker a cheesy vampire with crappy effects (she never once turns into a bat like creature in the comics either), and why couldn't they let Mina be the leader of the group like she was in the original!?. Don't name drop the novels each character came from, and for god's sake get a real writer. The dialog in that movie was atrocious throughout the entirety of the film.

If you can't tell yet, I hate that film with every fiber of my being. It took away 2 hours of my life, and crushed my soul. It is a blight, and it should never have been filmed.

In fact I think I'll start referring to it as "The film that shall not be named".

This is almost better than a Star Wars discussion for the whinyness of the fanboys.

Here's a clue, Film is different from graphic novels {yeah, I don't see the problem with that term either} in order to dump all the elements of a graphic novel into a film, it'd have to be like Watchmen and be at least 3 hours long.

In a cast where you have 6 main characters {at least} and all of them have to be introduced and their powers and a bit of their backstory explained, some things have to get sacrificed, you can't have massive amounts of character development if you need to take the story in 6 different ways. That, sir, is simple writing.

Short of them doing what Marvel is doing now with the Avengers and setting up 5-6 2hour movie prequels to the big ensemble finale, you have to realize that somewhere along the line something was going to suffer in just 1 2 hour movie.

In the end it was a rather enjoyable movie, it wasn't perfect steampunk following the rules that people who seem to want to write down clever little rules as to what is and isn't steampunk have set for themselves, and nor should it be.

Just let the people who like it, continue to like it without all the fanboy crying and hair pulling, stomping of feet etc.

Unless, of course you feel contrary to what everyone else felt and think that Tom Bombadill should have been left in the Lord of the Rings?

Things change, and you have to change certain things in order to get them into movies.

Logan

Well if the transition from whatever format to film can;t work there's a simple solution...don;t make the film. LOEG was a bad film, acting was bad, story was bad, dialogue was terrible, to be fair the visual design was ok but not great.

As has been said the character development was nothing more than namedropping from well known novels, although its clear that the director hadn't actually read any of them.

I though it was a bad film, blaming the writer of the original material doesn;t really make sense.

You make comparisons with Lord of the Rings, well it wasn't a perfect representation of the books but it was a pretty decent set of films and Peter Jackson certainly didn't say 'well its not my fault if you don;t like it, Tolkien was a crap screenwriter'

I have never read the graphic novel so I have no axe to grind there, but I'm very familiar with the appropriated characters and if you pinch someone else's idea you'd better do it justice otherwise you can expect flak.

There are a lot of badly mad films which I enjoy watching but this was not one of them. Personal taste is one thing but abusing people who make well reasoned criticism is quite another.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2009, 02:10:42 am by Narsil » Logged







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« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2009, 02:11:07 am »

I don't know why you are trying to start a fight, but I didn't say anything to offend the person that said they can't read the comic. I simply stated that without previous knowledge of the story and it's style, it would be very hard to tell how flawed the movie really is.

You implied that since they hadn't read the source material that they are practically ignorant as to what the entire thing should be about.

Quote
You were putting words into my mouth in your last reply, and I simply can't deal with trying to communicate with people like that.

I was responding to you point-by-point, if you weren't trying to tell people what to enjoy and passing off personal opinion as fact, you would see that.

Quote
Enjoy your movie, I'm not trying to tell you not to watch it. I was simply sharing my honest opinion to the OP.

It would be better put if you expressed said opinion as just that, opinion, and not as fact.

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Read Peter Harrow's comment, that pretty much says everything I am trying to say here.

I have read his comment, and he expressed things as opinion. You, on the other hand, were not, or do I need to quote you again so it doesn't seem like I'm putting words in your mouth?

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I really don't care what anyone says, because I know deep down how bad this film was.

That's not stating an opinion, that's pretending your opinion is irrefutable fact. Therein lies my beef.

Logan
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