The British Steampunk Settlement thread - "Would You" Divergence

[19th Century Space Pilot]

Depends. Does anyone actually own it, or have they abandoned it? If they've abandoned it, legally we can have it for the cost of the legal fees in making a claim.

If you could find a warehouse though, I have an idea...

[Arceye]

There's an old cutlery works not far from the centre of Sheffield, it's dilapidated but atmospheric, maybe twelve small companies are operating from it  but loads of spare room. The owner is trying to have it converted into student accomodation (of which Sheffield has hardly any haha!). Room here for yes some accomodation, but lots of room for those aspiring to make things- there'd be room maybe for my tea room idea, the area is busy, I see the only drawback is the Council who apparently want to remove all industry from the town centre and turn it into solid student accomodation and takeaways.
        A friend has a tiny but top notch workshop in there and his neighbours are all talented guys and gals- it'd be a shame if they were moved out.

[19th Century Space Pilot]

Are they game for conversion into Steampunk property?

We can always claim that we're doing it to make 'student accommodation'...

[Mr. Ethan Grammatikidis]

Hullo, looks like the thread needs to fork again, into BSS-Urban and BSS-Rural this time. Personally I'd love to see both happen, but I doubt I'd be useful in either, except maybe in planning... hmmm. I think I may be useful in planning energy distribution. I've thought about it quite a lot over the years, but never made the time to find out if my calculations were correct. The math could turn out to be very important, there isn't nearly as much renewable energy available for the taking as most people seem to think. More when I'm not half asleep.

[Tenlo]

Having read this thread, it may be I've over looked something, but its strange that while debating over rural vs Urban. No-one has thought of sea side resorts. Having lived in one for many years now I know that this would solve the worries of drawing tourists as these places swarm with tourists during the summer and to some extent the winter months too.

They also tend to back onto rural lands so you could have your farm land nearby to help support a more urban tearoom within the seaside town. It also neatly ties into the victorian Steampunk them as it seems that it has been overlooked that the Victorians often spent their summer months at the coast, so why should Steampunks not do the same. Plus although seaside resorts are more aimed towards the younger age groups, what self respecting child is not going to be fascinated but giant cogs whirring around with various steam and whistles abound.

On a last note, I've always been a fan of more hands on work during the day, while letting the more creative discussions and practices reside in the evening, I always enjoy a good philosophical discussion over tea in the early evening after a hard ay of grafting.

[Mr. Ethan Grammatikidis]

Oh you're right there Tenlo. I failed to put forward my own coastal town because of the price of housing down here, which I assume applies to the land too. When I was last comparing I found house prices in my little corner of England are about the same as those in some of the better parts of California, a 4-bedroom house sells for about the same except that in California you actually get a bit of land with it. I failed to consider that as Tenlo said there's a lot more money to be made down here. Amberley Working Museum is in the area and having grown up in the area I can tell you there's a strong spirit of support for traditional practices and lifestyles. Don't only expect young visitors. Amberley attracts as older people as younger; you'll see many little ones in the museum but the facilities outside don't cater to youngsters but do a thriving trade - a pub and terribly pastoral tea rooms by the river. It's the retired folk who have time to stop on the road.

Some things to be wary of if thinking small.
Some points to think carefully about, based solely on my experience with Sussex and parts of Surrey. I know this countryside pretty well.

Tea rooms are all freaking over the area! You want to start a tea-room in this area you'll be competing with people with experience. There are places where you might think a tea-room could be set up and you might be right, but you won't be the only one thinking of it. If you feel you can make a go of it anyway then best of luck to you, but think carefully.

Farm shops, craft shops, groups of craft, antique, farm and other shops all sharing expenses:- also been done, not so much as tea rooms but you're still likely to be in competition with existing, experienced establishments of the same sort. The steampunk theme will lend a novel edge, but on this point I'm not the person to determine whether it's a good thing or a bad thing. I don't know how many of the more traditional folk will be scared off by wierd design or how many more might be attracted. I personally find these places nice, but not really interesting; I've seen 90% of the stuff before in other craft shops, it's near-enough the same to my eyes. There's lots of retired folk in the villages and traditionalists in the country. A town would be a better place for a steampunk crafts establishment, but even then you'd have to be careful about which town. Arundel might be a good choice but but it already has a somewhat similar place to what we're planning, and the more ordinary-looking towns can be... well, I won't say. I'll be remembering the 80s rather than today. Worthing made some very immature choices in the 80s.

More later, again. I really must pay some attention to my own dwelling.

Edit: Ok that was all work and no play. Here's an article on the banana monorails, courtesy of the monorail society: Link. I don't know about you, but I could easily imagine a simple monorail pulled by miniature steam around a rural steampunk commune.

[Arceye]

Tenlo a very good point, after all the Victorians created most of our coastal resorts. A Steampunk commune that ultimately could be opened as a public attraction, maybe a small animal farm with goats and sheep for the coglings to Aaaah over, milking demonstrations, old vehicle work and displays, traditional machining and bench work, cooking workshops....I would wish to contribute to this when I am well.

[Dorian Ambrose]

First of all: I love the idea, and if realized, would seriously consider relocating to England to be a part of it.

I do however see a few problems. I know for a fact that this could be done (I will explain later - keep reading ), but the ideas posted so far, seem to miss the point entirely IMO.
The problem is not the ideas, but how people would realize them.

The plans are overly complicated, and to much based on modern ways of doing things. Therefore legal and financial issues completely take over.

Something very similar to this was actually done in Denmark a few years ago. A community called "Friland" (Freeland in english).

A patch of land, already designated for suburban development, was bought by a number of families, through a private cooperative. Just as it would otherwise have been bought by a developer or investor.

Over the following year, each family build a house.

The objective was to build an eco-friendly community based on sustainable energy and low cost, high efficiency houses. The goal was to do this, debt free.
By hard work and radical ideas, it was actually possible for these normal middle class people, to buy the land and build their houses, without loaning any money. For many families, this was done by one person working full time on the house and the other keeping their day job, to fund it.

Friland is not exactly a village of its own. It is basically a suburban community located just outside a small town.
But it is however, a privately owned community. This gives the inhabitants complete control of how it is run, as long as they stay within the law of the country. It would for all intends an purposes be a village in its own right. Apart from having its own postal code.  

IMO this is the way to go, if a steampunk community is to ever become a reality.

After the initial building process, the easiest and most effective way to run it, would be as a collective type community.
By this model, complete self sufficiency could be attained in 1½-2 years.

Link to Friland: http://www.dr.dk/dr2/friland


Edit to ad:

As for the issue of energy. My suggestion would be a "methane gas recovery system". Basically it is a septic tank in which methane gas is collected and either converted to electricity by a turbine, or used as fuel.
Such a system would fit the needs of the BSS perfectly. 

[Mr. Ethan Grammatikidis]

Thank you for that idea Dorian, to the best of my knowledge it's an excellent way around the chief difficulty!

It may be easier to build close to a village than a town here in Sussex. Just a thought.

[Violet Rose]

Having read this thread, it may be I've over looked something, but its strange that while debating over rural vs Urban. No-one has thought of sea side resorts. Having lived in one for many years now I know that this would solve the worries of drawing tourists as these places swarm with tourists during the summer and to some extent the winter months too.

They also tend to back onto rural lands so you could have your farm land nearby to help support a more urban tearoom within the seaside town. It also neatly ties into the victorian Steampunk them as it seems that it has been overlooked that the Victorians often spent their summer months at the coast, so why should Steampunks not do the same. Plus although seaside resorts are more aimed towards the younger age groups, what self respecting child is not going to be fascinated but giant cogs whirring around with various steam and whistles abound.

On a last note, I've always been a fan of more hands on work during the day, while letting the more creative discussions and practices reside in the evening, I always enjoy a good philosophical discussion over tea in the early evening after a hard ay of grafting.

Margate has a shedload of vacant properties at present and is but a spit from Broadstairs with its Victorian connections. Has anyone thought of investigating the possibilities of taking on a pop up shop - it would be a lot of hard work for a short term base but would have the advantage of requiring a limited financial commitment - a tester if you will

[MechanicalMouse]

First of all: I love the idea, and if realized, would seriously consider relocating to England to be a part of it.

A patch of land, already designated for suburban development, was bought by a number of families, through a private cooperative. Just as it would otherwise have been bought by a developer or investor.
</snip>

This is exactly what I'm suggesting, however my choice of using agricultural land and "playing" the system is purely for cost. I say "playing" since the venture will have agricultural and rural benefits.

A good example is this...

Currently for Sale is the Old Bunny Brickworks. (Bunny being a village in Nottinghamshire).
16.78 acres for the tune of 2.5 Million. This is brown land with outline planning consent.

While 30 acres of agricultural land for sale in Leicestershire is £300'000.

150'000 will give 1.3 acres with planning permission, enough 3 close houses, but not much else.

The thing is, right now I'm not in the position to start this project. 2 years from now possibly.

A urban settlement has many benefit over a rural one, its just cost isn't one of them.

[greensteam]

I really dont know about the costs, but there are several massive industrial sites in and around glasgow that could accommodate gazillions of flats and workshops.
Patons Mill in Johnstone, just outside Glasgow, is huge, has its own water supply and microhydroelectric scheme, several huge old building and some vile modern ones that could be flattened to make way for the vegetable plots.

Just after we visited this site, the owners went bust and there is consequently no security there now. i expect to hear the locals have burnt it down, anytime now, since the floors are mainly wood (vast baulks of timber you could build galleons out of).

Howdens in the city centre, just south of the Clyde is so vast that its impossible to give a fair impression of its enormousness:

This picture is of one of many sections of the old factory floor.

These two sites are typical of the apparently unsellable, vandal prone industrial site crying out for steampunking

[MechanicalMouse]

The crying shame is the land these building are on are "worth" hundreds of thousands of pounds. The people that own the land will quite happily sit and wait, decades if needs be, until someone want to pay that money.

We see a beautiful industrial building that will take a lot of time and money to turn in to something, the owners just see pound signs.

[Galina]

There's options here, though it does place restrictions on finding the initial land. If on the canal way, or large river you could set up morings and gain a little extra income that way.

Please do! Though IME of researching residential moorings, the fight between us and BW may be a bloody one, if only because of the paper cuts caused by sheer amounts of faffery. You might own the bank, but BW own the water and silt...

There are some lovely derelict buildings on the canalsides of the Trent & Mersey near Stoke - bottle kilns all over the place, and around them, girders and brickwork and torn-up roofs. However, yes, they are just sitting piles of ca$h to the owners, even if they'll never get turned into something more useful.


As for the comment below regarding seasides, I have long dreamed of popping an airship landing point onto the seafront at Morecambe, near to the (now done-up to the nines) Midland Grand art deco hotel, and then beating the council around their collective heads until they agree to run the railway back to the old station across the road.  Morecambe is full of sad, tired hotels; perhaps we should make it the neoV/Steam Whitby Oh for a Victorian carnival where Frontierland used to stand!

And of course, Morecambe was the upmarket one, once. Blackpool for the lower classes, the smart folk came up here. Now, it lies dead and dying, and littered with tat. ~sigh~

[19th Century Space Pilot]

If you want to do something with Morecambe, I'm game - I live in Carnforth, which is, as I'm sure you know, the smaller town which borders it. If ya'll want to move to Carnforth to do somethign with the railway...

If you could find an old office building who's owners are willing to sell for a reasonable price, you could remove floors to create indoor 'streets' - lit, if possible, by gaslamps - and create apartments with workshops/business space on the bottom.

Returning to Morecame:  there are plenty of old homes available which are, I think, 4 story with plenty of bedrooms - they used to be hotels - which sell for under $100,000. Or used to; last I checked was several years ago.

[19th Century Space Pilot]

Someone mentioned a canal earlier... Carnforth has one. In addition to a railway, rural surroundings, motorway (  ) and other means of ingress and egress. Some of the town is recent development, but there are a lot of Victorian houses available.

Oh, and the population is only 500, so if you can find that many Steampunks you can gerrymander control of the town.

[19th Century Space Pilot]

5000, I meant, 5000. Oh, the scourge of misplaced zeroes!

Where does everyone live in the UK, anyway?

[19th Century Space Pilot]

Hmmm, I may have been plugging my town a bit much...

Is anyone still interested?

[MechanicalMouse]

Nice to see this thread is still getting interest.

I'll have a look at Carnforth and its buildings.

[19th Century Space Pilot]

I'm just thinking that gerrymandering control of a small town or village might be easier than building one.

If you can make it, a hotel/B&B could possibly work here. There's already a hotel and several Pub/B&B's which manage to survive. Although they do cahrge around £30 a night. If you can get 5 people per night, on average, at £20, that's about £3K/month gross. Not enough to turn a profit, I'm afraid. If you could get 10 people/night, it might have a shot at working...

[19th Century Space Pilot]

Hmmm... a lot of towns that were built in the Victorian age have sorts of areas that are off the main road, wihere streets and roads interconnect with each other to form little minitowns. Those are possible targets, maybe?

[19th Century Space Pilot]

Okay, I've taken the liberty of collecting a list of everyone who has posted in this thread:

MechanicalMouse
OswaldBastable
Smaggers
Draaka
Sir Henry Tolvaddon
TimeTinker
GarethG
JennyWren
Violet Rose
stardust
Arceye
Kane_
Smigg the Miserable
Von Ponkster
Victoria The Mistress
Mercury Wells
greensteam
Gazongola
Angus A Fitziron
Mr. Ethan Grammatikidis
Tenlo
Dorian Ambrose (Denmark, although he mentioned possibly relocating if something is set up)
Galina

and of course, me, although at the moment it would be a tad difficult (I'm 15, after all). Including everyone who's posted, it comes to 24 people. So you might be able to pull off it, if that represents maybe a quarter of the people who would do it. 100 would allow us to Gerrymander some reasonable area, or pool resources and build something.

[Mr Bellows]

After reading this thread I thought of this place;
http://www.kingarthurslabyrinth.co.uk/content/section/12/93/
& thought how about a steampunk version in an old warehouse converted to look inside like a Victorian street.
I mean look about this forum & just count how many of us create varied items of such beauty & quality. Are you going to tell me that you could not find enough people to fill the shoppes ??
Starting shoppes could include;
 a clothing shop (all handmade of course),
 a jeweller/ watchmaker,
 a mad scientists lab (gadjet shop) includes goggles 
 a tea room &/ or cafe
This gives us the green light from councils that are looking for shopping centers
In addition we could run "workshops" to show those interested how to Modify those dull plastic things into items of beauty they can be proud of, and possibly educate them about "recycling/ fixing" as opposed to endlessly buying a new thing.
This gives us the green light for those councils looking into new & greener ways to recycle.
& Finally, (huzzah I hear you cry !!) some sort of permanent museum of Steampunk to showcase all that is good & beautiful about Steam.
Naturally accommodation would have to be on-site or nearby, possibly communal to begin with, which could then be modified as needed into a B&B or hotel at a later date so visitors can stay for a weekend or more to fully Immerse themselves in all things steamy (ooer !!)
That's it, I'm done.

[19th Century Space Pilot]

The only problem I see is with being unable to start small and expand at a lter date. How cheap can we get an old abandoned warehouse, suitable for modding?

To quote myself:

If you could find an old office building who's owners are willing to sell for a reasonable price, you could remove floors to create indoor 'streets' - lit, if possible, by gaslamps - and create apartments with workshops/business space on the bottom.

That's what I imagine we could do with an old warehouse, except this time we'd be building them.

[MechanicalMouse]

The only problem I see is with being unable to start small and expand at a lter date. How cheap can we get an old abandoned warehouse, suitable for modding?

Depends on size and location. a quick google search has found a 6500 sq.ft. warehouse in Carmarthenshire for £350'000.

Not sure about re-purposing for residential usage, I'll have to look into it.

For "amusement park" idea a covered settlement under a huge warehouse would be interesting, as a living space I'm not so sure.