The British Steampunk Settlement thread - "Would You" Divergence

[Arceye]

I think a tea room would be a good start, a learning experience before a complete community were considered. As has been pointed out, even this would not be easy, I know areas in Sheffield that are overrun with cafes. I'm thinking of somewhere like the Elsecar Heritage centre near Barnsley, an old mines repair shop complex and steam railway, not a 'green field' site. Apart from obvious details such as staff appropriately dressed, the food would have to be good and remain so. There are so many cafes whose standards slip after a few months. And if local conditions permit, volunteers visit also dressed appropriately to lend atmosphere.
        No displays of bags of crisps and plastic pop bottles, no ice cream freezer. The cafe must be as realistic in appearance as elf and safety regs allow. Food entirely appropriate to a bygone age- example the Black Country museum has a pub which sells only drinks available pre WW1.

[MechanicalMouse]

As a separate kind of BSS (British Steampunk Settlement) starter project the tea shop would be great. It would be a place to hone skills, get out the steampunk  message, escape some of this modern world and a wonderful place for local steampunks to meet.

I'm not sure how you could use it as a starting point for a larger community.

[Kane_]

It would be interesting to see how well (efficiently) you could generate electricity using a waterwheel - add on belt driven PTO to run other machinery as well I suppose, not really steamy but certainly alternative

[JennyWren]

if the cafe was a going concern then it could be used to supliment the income of settlement, and give other who cant just move onto site a place to contribute, and learn new skills, perhaps voluntary staff to keep costs down, also use full as an office

[Smigg the Miserable]

I'm not entirely sure how practical this would be from a business and financial point of view, but possibly the tea shop could start as an initial project for the purposes of getting some practice in and testing the waters, and then if successful the extra revenue it makes (after expenses and the suchlike) could presumably be used to help fund the BSS.  By extension, if the BSS was then able to produce enough spare produce (after that needed to supply it's own canteen/restaurant and residents) it could send this on to the tearoom, helping to further the teashop's authentic feel and hopefully reduce it's own expenditures.  On the other hand though I suppose that would leave less produce available to sell on to other buyers, so I don't know how well that would work.

Edit: Ah-ha, I see someone's beaten me to that suggestion.  Curse my slow posting!

[MechanicalMouse]

if the cafe was a going concern then it could be used to supliment the income of settlement, and give other who cant just move onto site a place to contribute, and learn new skills, perhaps voluntary staff to keep costs down, also use full as an office

Not so much a concern, but I could see it as a starting point, but your idea is brilliant. An in town extension of the community opens up for much better exposure and income!

[MechanicalMouse]

It would be interesting to see how well (efficiently) you could generate electricity using a waterwheel - add on belt driven PTO to run other machinery as well I suppose, not really steamy but certainly alternative

HAC has mentioned, correctly, before that the belt is very steampunk and was the main method of energy transport in victorian time. Of course its a Health and Safety nightmare.

[Sir Henry Tolvaddon]

if the cafe was a going concern then it could be used to supliment the income of settlement, and give other who cant just move onto site a place to contribute, and learn new skills, perhaps voluntary staff to keep costs down, also use full as an office

Indeed; a kind of steamy embassy...that could stand alone but which could also serve as an outlet for any good produced on a farm as well. It would need to be sited somewhere it could draw a reliable clientel though; so a town or city which had a high tourist draw with a connection to steam. York is one place which springs to mind.

[MechanicalMouse]

Indeed; a kind of steamy embassy...

This is the Freedonian Embassy.... no... must not start that idea... Little cog currency, Vernian Process working on a national anthem, a Flag ("you have a flag, no? oh then we own this country now" <Izzard mode off>), Gogglemas being a National Holiday, <ramble, ramble, ramble>, The Queen,   <ramble, ramble, ramble>...... I think I'll dig out my meds.

[19th Century Space Pilot]

Please do. Otherwise we'll have to send you to a proper Victorian mental asylum... :evil:

Which to start first: the teashop or the farm? Teashop's proably best, which then provides money for the farm to be set up.

[Von Ponkster]

Good Morning to you all
I am not a great contributor as I tend to live my strange and some what eclectic life with out the need to join clubs or define myself as part of a particular following or movement. It has been pointed out to me by those I choose to surround myself with that I appear to be what has become known as a 'Steam Punk'  I therefore feel I have become part of this community by default .
I am a great believer of technology that is solid repairable , built to last and has some intrinsic ascetic value and find my self having to agree with TinkerTime on his comments on "Steam Amish" and I am particularly intrigued at the loathing and hatred towards the lowly ipod.
We all obviously use a PC ( unless the posts have been scibed from pigeon deliveries) and I do not see how the Ipod differs from the wind up gramophone other than it has removed some of the bad but still embraces the good ( you can still get crackly recordings on an ipod) .
Is the steampunk movement a historical reenactment group - if so we appear to be more like the Luddites than the Amish!

[MechanicalMouse]

A little off topic, but I will answer this one.

An iPod while an amazing piece of technology is a prime example of disposable technology. The integral battery design makes is beyond most consumers to replace the battery, so when the battery dies you throw the entire thing away.

The aesthetic design of the iPod is very clever but bland, and worse has been copied so much and "branded" so heavily it is almost a parody of itself.

We like to tinker, to understand and to change this to suit us. Modern technology is hidden by "no serviceable parts inside" stickers, patents and non disclosure agreements. I know why the last two are there, a nessecary evil for business, but for tinkerers these factors get in the way.

For the tinkerers and builders in Steampunk we like things Built solid, designed to last, with the ability to take it apart and see how it works. I have zero intention of building a Steam Amish commune.

Oh and PS, welcome to the friendliest place on the internet.

[Kane_]

It would be interesting to see how well (efficiently) you could generate electricity using a waterwheel - add on belt driven PTO to run other machinery as well I suppose, not really steamy but certainly alternative

HAC has mentioned, correctly, before that the belt is very steampunk and was the main method of energy transport in victorian time. Of course its a Health and Safety nightmare.

It's an H&S nightmare in it's purest Victorian form - but apply a little common sense to stop people getting tangled up or clattered if it breaks and off you go. You'd need to leave enough space around the belt for a small child to fit in for maintenance and repair of course, there are always spare disposable urchins around after all

[MechanicalMouse]

Belts can be set up safely, they still used. Just need a nice mesh cage around them.

[Victoria The Mistress]

It may sound daft, and against the premise of self-sufficiency, but what about approaching a wealthy patron with a similar outlook who might want to be involved as well? Prince Charles kind of popped into my head, as someone mentioned Poundbury earlier, but there must be a few wealthy eccentrics who'd be interested surely?

[Mercury Wells]

We have to address an important and unpleasant subject of currency/banking.

With currency:-
1) Do we use a system of barter?.
2) Buy as much pre-decimal currency (L.S.D) as possible and use our own bureau de change to change from new pence to old pence (10 new pence to 9 & 1/2 old pence)?.
4) Design our own currency?.

With banking:-
1) Bank with a high street bank/building society?
2) Set up a credit union? (not sure if this relevent in some way?)
3) Investment in something?

[JennyWren]

With currency
1 this would happen within the community, or outside with the a community vote
2 would be counter productive, as others could buy in bulk and we would lose out, and im not sure its legal
3. again legality, though tokens might work, just the problem of counterfiets

Banking
1 easist solution, and the easits to implemnt
2 way to much work involved
3 we already are investing, in our community, though it may be possible to buy shares in the community and get back a measure of its profits

[MechanicalMouse]

We'd use the currency of the land, the Partnership would have to have business bank account anyway. Once the community is to village status I believe a lot of services will be bartered and traded anyway.

It would be fun to have our own currency, but it wouldn't be practical.

[greensteam]

Many real places have parallel currencies, such as the Totnes pound and other Local Exchange Trading Schemes currencies. No reason why not to have pounds sterling and also a steampunk currency.

10 cogs = 1 watch?
10 teeth= 1 gear?

[Gazongola]

My personal opinion on this: I think it an amazing idea. Hopefully I would be out of University by the time it starts all rolling, but even if it gets rolling before then, I would still be dedicated. The only comment I have is I don't think that everyone could be entirely self sufficient on the closed community. I am sure there would still be people who have to go do their regular jobs elsewhere to make money, I know I certainly would if I manage to realise my dream as a film maker.

Also due to the dfact that many people have skills that lie in areas that would not necessarily work within the community, but I am sure they would have many other things to offer as well. For instance, we couldn't realisticly build a car making plant initially, for the car makers in the community, so in the beginning many things would have to be outsourced and whatever. Also, it would help to not stagnate the internal economy. But then that person would probably be a skilled engineer, but would need top have work somewhere else, until the internal economy and demand was high enough to make it a viable source of income to live on. But I would suppose that is where the self sufficiency would come in.

Don't get me wrong, I am not poo pooing the idea, or criticising or whatever, I think that there can be many things within the community that help, such as farming etc. There could also be tourist pounds to be had. If we could, I am sure we would all move in to the Black Country Living Museum tomorrow. I know I would. If perhaps we also look towards a place that already has a decent number of existing buildings, as things like planning permission would have to be obtained. Unfortunately we would still have to face the Government, so I think making that as easy as possible would be a help.

[MechanicalMouse]

Also due to the fact that many people have skills that lie in areas that would not necessarily work within the community, but I am sure they would have many other things to offer as well.

I agree. The self sufficiency side of things if for the Farm at the start. If we wanted to buy brown land read for building homes on the initial cost would be 20-40 times higher. If we wanted to have enough land to be a small community would would have to bend the Planning Laws.

Even at stage 1, 1/2 the founders would have to continue their normal work in order to fund the building and expansion of the community. The Farm is there to allow us to have the Land. Does that make sense?

A few years down the line once the community has expanded the Farm would not be able to support everyone and is more important to have outside income.

[greensteam]

I would reccommend those who are actually serious about this to take a look at places like Tinkers Bubble http://www.economads.com/log20020524-20020531.php and similar. It is run by the brother of my best pal from school and although they seem quite Steamy, i think they have had their difficulties over the years.

Talamh (pronounced Tallav) in Scotland is a real hippy place on a farm, set up by some eco types i used to work beside, but is not so steamy.

All these sorts of places start with great intentions but the work is hard, the rules are against you and its tough.

I would really really reccommend kicking off in an urban setting. The nice old factory shown earlier in the thread looked perfect as the work/income base. ideally people would buy or rent homes very nearby and come together for the work. As more people found the idea attractive, so the community naturally aggregates in that area. The model for this is more typical in the USA where derelict properties seem to be available for tiny sums and craftspeople move in and do them up. Property of nearly any kind in the UK is so dear and planning rules in the rural areas are so rigid that I would think only a really run down urban area would be feasible.

[MechanicalMouse]

You've hit the nail on the head.
Buying a large enough building to build workshops and homes would be prohibitively expensive. Even in the worst of areas.

There are lots of great sites, which have been empty for decades, but the owners will not sell for less than what they think the land is worth.

I've read the link about Tinkers Bubble, and effectively if you wanted to use Farmland, this is the route you would have to go. I have absolutely no illusions on how hard it would be for the first few years. Which is why I've not gone that route yet.

I have my escape plan already written, costed and figured out. A couple of years from now when our youngest is ready for school, I would like to see if I can make some sort of homestead. It may turn out to be a pipe dream or could be the start of something bigger.

[Angus A Fitziron]

There are two scenarios developing here. MechanicalMouse is wanting to escape the urban jungle and enjoy 'The Good Life', whilst others like Greensteam see an urban environment as more desirable. As a fully paid up member of the OldGeysers club, I do not seek a life of hard physical work, but would be happier to subscribe to a viable community where Steampunk values were upheld. For example, when I retired I had to buy my own mobile phone. 20 months later the contract has expired, the screen has cracked and the 'phone company expect me to take on a new expensive contract (and pay for the 'phone I want as the Nokia N95 is no longer available). The way out is to mend it. I replaced the screen and changed the contract to £10 / month SIM only! Steampunk values can flourish in the urban environment. Providing such skills and services to the public, require public to be customers. It is going to be harder to get a good supply of customers if you are based in a country setting, particularly if there is nothing to attract visitors to the locality. There is the option of working on line, but that does raise your costs, so perceived savings are less. What if a good, solid, attractive urban location could be found? The upper floors are converted to flats of varying sizes. The ground floor is converted to trading and workshop units, maybe off of a beautiful arcade. The objective is to gain subscriptions from the prospective flat owners to fund the enterprise, perhaps seeking some financial support from suitable charities/agencies. City tenaments were for many their first civilised home in the Victorian era. They were economical and although we view them with a certain horror these days, they were often loved by the people who lived in them. On the face of it, it should be a good investment. Buy a weary town centre store, closed by the credit crunch and end up with a desirable set of residences over unusual and interesting shops. Tenants could then maintain existing jobs, having access to public transport, maybe working in one of the units at weekends or part time if they choose. The skills required are so much more likely to be found amongst us for an urban venture than for a largely agricultural one. Maybe the two could co-exist, one providing an urban office for selling produce, providing information, processing holiday lets etc. The icing on the cake would be to connect the two sites by canal (or narrow gauge railway!). This is, of course a dream, I have no idea what the numbers look like, but if a suitable location appears it would be interesting to investigate.

[MechanicalMouse]

Truthfully "the good life" is a means to an end.

If I set up a homestead, it's to get a good sized house, a workshop and enough land to grow fruit and veg.

The produce growing would be a hobby, not a lifestyle choice.

But there is absolutely no way I could ever afford a house the size I would like. It's not going to happen.

However to get around planning laws and stupid land prices, I'm willing to do 2-3 years hard graft on the land.

An urban HQ, would be great, my only caveat is the much higher cost.