Manifesto; or why dosnt steampunk work

[tophatdan]

I'm new to steampunk as a term and as a culture, but not as a lifestyle, for 10 years my life has been top hats and pith helmets, DIY andcollections of old and fantastical crap. i dint read fiction but I'm a long winded and well versed student of all sciences, i dint "cosplay" but i leave my house everyday as if i were a 21st century gentleman, when i first put my cell phone on a watch bob i thought i was a genius, when i began carrying a toolkit with me everywhere i thought i was prepared, i never thought of these things as 'high fashion' 'counter culture' or heaven forbid 'steampunk' infact until about a month ago i had never heard the term.

my entire life infact i have been living on the fringe in such a manor, for instance i belong to literally dozens of mountain man rendezvous clubs, we shoot blackpowder, dress in 1840s colonial American clothes and get together around campfires where we try to drink ourselves blind and solve modern problems with old timey solutions.

i serve on the board of the local historical society, pal around with friends who are historians, hunters, trappers, miners, hat makers and carpenters, all of which spend their lives trying to live the life of a century ago in this one, we dress funny, we work hard, we DIY our lives, we dint live in fantasy, we just live...

my life and the lives of those around me for the most part is a living example of the world 'steampunk' represents. i am truly shocked and amazed to find out that this is a subculture, if not pleasantly surprised.

but i do wonder, where is the practicality, the utility of these things, to dress up on the weekend is great, to make a living at it is better, to make a life of it best, but when you put the tool kit on your hip how often do you take out that screwdriver, how often do you gap a sparkplug or pick a lock?

that gun you cary, can it fire, is that uber cool pop up parascope sight on your gun just there for show or have you bothered to hone it in for accuracy? the hose running from your gun, is it there for show and to get in your way or does it transfer coolant? those goggles you made, does the tint protect your eyes from UV do those multiple lenses magnify? is that leather thick enough to stop road rash or just good looking? I'm not trying to nit pick, to be holier than thou, infact I'm in awe at the wonders that the Victorian motif has brought to computers, mp3 players etc etc. i have even seen a punch card cell phone that is a wonder of innovation, my question is, why spend a thousand dollars on brass to make something look cool if it doesn't work, if your going to build a gun, buy a gun for a base, then mod it, if your going to make goggles, buy welding goggles, a fct 3 or so and then mod them, if your making a leather jacket, start with thick enough stock to protect you... i hope i dint make anyone angry but seriously, if you make it, make it work.... if you live it, live it well and if you build it, build it to last, that's what those people we envy and imitate from a hundred years ago were about, craft manship, beauty, profit, hard work, raw truth... live the steampunk life they would want you too... and if that  means taking your raygun concept and adapting it to a 357 mag, do it, if that means modifying your plans to make something functional, do it... and if that means a little less fantasy and a little more reality... do it...

[TimeTinker]

Welcome to the forum.

With all due respect can I advise you to explore the forum a little more and you will find this has been a regular debate here. In fact the recent "are we leaving ourselves open to accusations of elitism" you may find enlightening.  Many people see different things from the genre.  I am afraid your post makes it seems as though you think none of us make things which actually function.  You are unfortunately in error on that point. Like any community there are variations on the theme. Some of us go for function and style, some for just style and lots of variations on the way.

Our consensus point is that many people get different things from the genre and contribute in different ways. Some craft words or music rather than functional items for example. If you associate with the sort of people you say you do then you will apreciate the beauty of a well crafted song or story just as much as a carefully machined and aligned joint.

It is perhaps a little unwise to start your visits here by throwing down a challenge. Try asking questions about what is going on rather than saying what you think is going on and you might find some more accurate answers and find people with a similar outlook to yourself to interact with.  If you are actually saying what it sounds like in  that you have got it right and all of the rest of us have it wrong then I am afraid you are in the wrong place and you might want to look elsewhere.

Enjoy visiting and I hope you choose to stick around and make some positive contributions.

[teucer]

It's been said that you should have nothing in your life that you neither know to be useful nor believe to be beautiful.

Useful things are a dime a dozen, but beautiful ones within our chosen aesthetic are rare. So we make more. Some of them, as an added bonus, are useful, but the big reason that most aren't is that we're a community of artists more than we are of craftsmen. I see nothing wrong with this.

[Utini420]

And I'll just chime in that I've made my living in part using the tools strapped to my belt this very moment for over 10 years.   But the wacky rifle scope is just for FUN.   

[Sgt.Major Thistlewaite]

My guns are functional, real, and, for the most part, large. When I wear leather, it is thick enough..I have hit the pavement at 60mph before, and am still here to tell it. My goggles protect my eyes, and I have several pair with different functions. I regularly carry a "kit" and use it daily..I don't know how I ever got along before I started carrying a multitool.

My watch chain has a...watch on it...I do not own a cell-phone.

Judge not, lest ye be judged by the standard with which ye judge.

Thistlewaite

[Arceye]

There are artists who make beaiutiful but not necessarily useful objects, there are craftsmen who make things that work. And sometimes the two come together. Room for both in my world. Also room for speculation even if nothing ultimately comes of it. I am recovering from a stroke, have had little spare stamina to make things, but talking with people about making things has helped keep the spark alive.

             No absolutes. Have fun.

[tophatdan]

as i said, i dint mean to make anyone angry, of course i understand the nature of art and its divergence from the usefull, myself i make a living (amongst other things) as a pipe smith, been doing so for 7 years now, genuine tobacco pipes for the genuine tobacco user i say, my 'artwork' or more appropriately my craft or trade is meant to be both beautifully and functional, a thing which astounds most in the tobacco community today where machine made Dr. grabows are the norm and a Missouri meerschaum is a thing of the past.

i have spent the better part of this last month looking about the net seeing all sorts of steampunk wonders, giving me ideas for things i myself will create, the lamps i have seen are a marvel, the majority of the devices both beautiful and inspiring, even a Nerf gun which has been modded has its purpose.

i have been reading my way through this forum and others for weeks now before posting, getting to know the 'culture' as an outsider with an affinity for Neil diamond and Leonard Cohen i have even learned a certain appreciation for the music, something i rarely find.


i am just saying that some of these things i have been looking at and reading about it would take so little to make them working models, I'm not asking someone to invent a jetpack, but when you make an awesome looking battery bag or a 'power supply' it would take so little work to make it the real thing... again forgive me if I'm being rude here, its not my intention, its just that i am seeing so many bright and talented people here and else where who are essentially squandering their talents for invention and artistry on mere props, wouldn't you rather use that power supply on your hip to recharge and power all your personal electronics, steampunked of course....

i am just seeing such i divergence between the craftsmanship of the technology and devices and the props... again i apologize...

I'm sure this is a debate that will not end here, and that shouldn't end anywhere, in the mean time, I'm just trying to encourage people to try a little more reality with their fantasy

[TimeTinker]

You may be trying to encourage but all you have actually managed to do is annoy people I am very sorry to say.  You are making far too many generalisations. If you are really determined not to offend people then why not start a positive thread? Showing some of your work for people to admire is always a good start. Build some credibility before you start to preach. I am afraid even this thread title is confrontational.  Would you like to start again.

And for your information I have personally been taking part in the sort of historical features you mention for more years than you have been walking this planet. I make a full time living by making things that work and things that look good. I make and supply items for museums to display and for television to see how items from the past functioned for real.  You may even have seen me on TV doing this. Even so I consider myself to be a beginner in this world of Steampunk and am constantly learning from people here - some of whom may not have my experience or my skills (although many I would be happy to consider myself a student at their side) but do have a flash of inspiration that I lack. My point is your hypothesis is seriously flawed and it might be wise to change tack a little. We can all learn from the contribution of others even if that learning is just a little humility.

I am trying to be polite and be a gentle guide to some of the paths and winding ways hereabouts since you are obviously a stranger in this world even though you may be familiar with your own.

[leeps]

This seems oddly similar...and yet the opposite of....what was discussed in the elitism thread. Here we were, concerned about elitism being directed AT newcomers, but now it's coming FROM them directed at everyone else. How's that for a switcheroo?  

[H. MacHinery]

Steampunk is not exclusive, and those that dabble are just as much a part as those that go all the way into a "lifestyle"

Calling someone out because they put on an SP costume just for a weekend  convention is as silly as calling them out because their raygun doesn't really shoot rays.

Frankly, I rather prefer the dabblers - they are less likely to be judgemental about anything except the aesthetics.

[popuptoaster]

I dont think something is less worthy if its not "real", for a start in the UK you'd be risking arrest walking round with any sort of functional weapon, replicas are bad enough here.

Many of us do create real items, i dont do much in the way of steampunk gear to be honest, I love the look and ethos but dont have the time, the space to store things or funds to make the items i really want to once my families needs have been met, on the other hand i have been building and modifying real working cars and trucks for over 25 years mostly outside in the (usually wet or chilly British weather) without the aide of a large selection of power tools.

 I wouldnt put anyone down who makes decorative items over functional ones, personally i dont smoke a pipe but i do drive a car, so in my world your hand crafted pipes are decorative and not usefull weather they work or not.

[tophatdan]

well i dont drive a car so we are even sir, lol

[tophatdan]

i had to scrounge to find it but there it was at http://renegadefuturist.com/archives/2008/03/27/does-steampunk-have-a-cultural-ethic/

an article by a Mr. Klint Finley whom i hope doesn't mind me quoting him when he says :

"I would like to propose that were there to be some sort of a Steampunk cultural ethic it should be in taking that amateur inventor approach to modern technology with an eye to addressing the issues that humanity faces today.

Oh, and it should of course be done in such a way as to exemplify quality workmanship and ostentatious ornamentation."


Now of course Mr. Finley said it much more eloquently and much less confrontationally than i have, but he has embodied what it is that i am suggesting when i say "try a little more reality with your fantasy."

perhaps i have somehow missed the point of all this steampunkery, i hope that's not the case because what i think i see is exactly that, a group of people willing to live and love experimentation and the DIY lifestyle...

i will say again i am truly sorry if i angered anyone, but this was my point, i hope you can all appreciate that...

[dman762000]

Yes that is exactly what you see. Pretty much every ray gun I have seen, was made by hand by its owner. Pretty much every computer case mod I have seen was done by its owner. Pretty much every costume or outfit was put together by the person wearing it. Yep we sure do a lot of DIY. Just because the ray gun does not shoot rays does not mean that it was not put together with care and attention to detail. Just because the computer does not run on steam does not make it any less valuable. Just because a person did not stich every stich of an outfit does not mean that they did not put a lot of thought and concern into putting it together. DIY can mean a lot of different things too.

[Magister]

Okay, I think I see what you're trying to say here Tophatdan, though perhaps the suggestion of how to turn a prop into a working device is better made on a case by case basis, rather than being said in general to everybody.

Many people would appreciate tips on how to bridge that gap with their devices, though many others simply enjoy the construction of beautiful props. Besides some of the most creative devices posted here don't really have a possibility of practical use anyway.

[Sam E.]

I get what you mean tophatdan, I'm not a huge fan of the fantasy and roleplaying aspect of steampunk. But with that said, I really love the props that people post on here. The 'mummified sprite' that someone posted a couple of days ago was magnificent. I consider 'looking good' a function, so its all functional.

BTB,
Care to post some pictures of your pipes?

[Tanuki]

"We can forgive a man for making a useful thing as long as he does not admire it. The only excuse for making a useless thing is that one admires it intensely. All art is quite useless."

-Oscar Wilde (for real this time, I swear!)

[Baron von Landau]

Function is all good and well, and indeed, I strive most assiduously to avoid costume-grade replica type items, but there are some things that have become ingrained in steampunk imagery that just can't be made to function practically.

Take rayguns, for example. Try as one might, there is simply no way to build a handheld, gun-sized device that shoots beams of energy. It just isn't possible with contemporary technology (perhaps fortunately so, but that is a discussion for another day). Now, does that mean that everyone who has a prop raygun sitting around, no matter how beautifully crafted, is committing a mortal sin against the code of steampunkery? Of course not.

If one were to get rid of all the fanciful, impossible technological wonders that never were, then steampunk is reduced to Victorian reenactment. I don't mean to disparage reenactors, wonderful bunch that they are, but I feel that the whimsical aspects of steampunk are really intrinsic to its nature, and part of what make it such fun.

Respectfully yours,
Baron Viktor von Landau

[TimeTinker]

Personally I love all the Victorian patent applications for amazing gadgets and gizmo that actually didn't work very well if at all.  Amazing ingenuity running up the blind alley of impracticality

Some of us like to carry that ethic forward too

[J. A. Wykes]

And I for one, though a n00b, sympathize with Mr. TimeTinker. I'm tired of a world where perfection is expected, even forced. I don't want a world that's a well-oiled machine. I want a dirty, broken, human world, one where innovation is lauded, not taken for granted and then forgotten.

I want to try something that's not perfect. I want to make something cool, something that might not work, something that might not even be meant to work, but something that I can make. Even if that's just an idea that I put on paper and share with the community and get flamed because it was a stupid idea in the first place. It was mine, and it was original. And that's the way I like it.

I sympathize with Mr. tophatdan as well, though. Function is great, as long as it's not demanded. But I don't think you're demanding it. Just don't try to make other people fit into your box and I think everyone can get along just fine. 

[Arceye]

And I for one, though a n00b, sympathize with Mr. TimeTinker. I'm tired of a world where perfection is expected, even forced. I don't want a world that's a well-oiled machine. I want a dirty, broken, human world, one where innovation is lauded, not taken for granted and then forgotten.

I want to try something that's not perfect. I want to make something cool, something that might not work, something that might not even be meant to work, but something that I can make.

        Amen to that. Perfection is not usually achievable, but the attempt to make something, a MkI, is the thing. Have a go, if it doesn't work first time, either artistically or functionally, then try again. And again. There seems to be a common ethos that things need to work first time I blame the TV for that, where the real work is done off camera by the 'experts' not by the presenter. And what you make may please you, but to quote one unkind acquaintance on one of my efforts 'It's fallen out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down'. So what? You've made the attempt.

[darkshines]

With the firearms thing, I think most of our weaponary just looks good as it would be illegal outwise. I think my other halfs Steam Cannon would be illegal on most PLANETS, let alone countries, lol.

Fucntional things I have made? Well, my main thing is jewelry and clothing, so obviously they perform their funtion. I also made an ipod case from a WW2 german trench torch, that works too. My goggles, made by elShoggotho, are Anti Mesmeric Occular Diffusers, with mesh lenses instead of glass to prevent me accidently using my "powers" on the general public, they seem to be working so far

The problem with steampunk is that a lot of it is fictional, we have weapons and inventions that bend the laws of space, time and physics, which would be impossible to make real. Steampunk is, at the fore, an aesthetic movement for me, its just as easy to take a modern watch/ipod/Nerf gun and make it look right, than it is to have a big pile of cogs/brass bits/cranks and make something functional that looks good from the start.

We should all just relax, have fun, and enjoy being the best looking folks on the planet *passes round the Laphroaig*

[TimeTinker]

As one of the "experts" who works off camera and occasionally in front of it I must say that the pressures of making something work on set are pretty immense.  If you are doing a build during a shoot they keep stopping you to film etc and set you back no end - "No don't do any more until we get the camera here" Even when you think you have everything prepped in advance you can be sure the phone will go the day before filming with "can you just..."  There is no phrase I hate more than that one since they have no idea what is normally involved.  My business has developed a catch phrase.  "The difficult we do immediately, the impossible takes a little time"

Sometimes you have to improvise the most heath robinson of solutions on the spot - makes you feel a bit like Mcgiver.

That's why I guess I can see the pros and cons of all sides of the form and function debate.  If it works, great. If it looks good, great. If it works and it looks good - well you have hit the jackpot.

Happy tinkering!

[Angus A Fitziron]

*passes round the Laphroaig*

no thank you, it smells and tastes like a Scottish bog.........  oh, it IS a Scottish bog.......    At last, something we disagree on (unless you were just trying to get rid of an unwanted present)

.....the phone will go the day before filming with "can you just..."  There is no phrase I hate more than that one .......

Indeed Major, when I was a waged worker, I frequently had to remind people that 'just' is a four letter word! The 'Right First Time' culture only works if you can separate the R&D out of the mix. Mind you, although I am in a much more relaxed environment now, there are times when I miss the smell of fear.. 

[Utini420]

Abrasively as it came off, he does have a point: while it certainly isn't mandatory, it would be nice to see steampunk serve as a vehicle of transition from a consumerist to a more sustainable culture.  This would entail greater functionality and day-to-day use than heavy costume dress up, yet the dress up is still fun.

I've got real guns and play guns.  I sure have more fun whipping out the Nerf at parties than the Thompson.