Manifesto; or why dosnt steampunk work

[Utini420]

There are few critters more fun to harass than Realtor.  I have at times done so for pure sport.  They just think they are so damned important.

[tophatdan]

my entire life infact i have been living on the fringe in such a manor, for instance i belong to literally dozens of mountain man rendezvous clubs, we shoot blackpowder, dress in 1840s colonial American clothes and get together around campfires where we try to drink ourselves blind and solve modern problems with old timey solutions.

tell me you live near Ohio.


sorry but no, im down in kansas, the RML shoot, the Duck creek run, Frozen butt run Plains trader etc. etc.

let me know if you ever make it down this far south, any friend of reenactment is a friend of mine!


and that we know each other already, most likely from the Great Trail Festival.

[Nikola Tesla]

Which just goes to show that Nature is mercilessly inconsiderate. If the tree could have fallen at the right moment, in the right direction, with the realtor correctly placed... 

Damn!  Now why didn't I think of that? 

There are few critters more fun to harass than Realtor.  I have at times done so for pure sport.  They just think they are so damned important.

Wow, someone who gets it!  Thanks Utini!  My uncle has a license; I swear it's affected his brain.  Nowadays he doesn't even really sell that much, he hides in the mountains with his dogs and his guns...but he's still important, see, he knows everything about what everyone should be doing and what is wrong with them, all the time.  Big Fat Ego.  And h--l if he doesn't still answer the cell phone at the dinner table!  Despite living in an area where the service is crap! (A factoid he does not deign to share with prospective buyers in said area, naturally).  Do they have those things implanted, or what?  And then he wonders why his kids do it! (One of them followed in his footsteps, so he really should know).

Oh, and the hoity-toity area where he resides (according to him; it shades to redneck to my eyes) is better than anywhere else on Earth, and everyone should buy there, never mind that since the electric company moved out there have been no jobs and that's why he had to go get that license in the first place...arrrgh.

Sorry 'bout the OT rant.  Grrr.  (What is it with New England families and real estate, anyway?  )

[Kittybriton]

Ah, but New England families are real Americans. Not like the savages who were here when they arrived (and were duped into selling land for beads and axes, and I now suspect have a large stake in eBay), or the unspeakable poor who set off to colonize places like Oregon and the wastelands in between. Neither are they like the rebel upstarts who established (and continue to maintain, the Republic of) Texas.

p.s. I feel I am to some extent qualified in making the above

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

inflammatory

remarks, in that I am an immigrant, British by birth.

[Sgt.Major Thistlewaite]

Pah! My father's people came to North Carolina, from Switzerland, in 1710. My mother's people came from Scotland. via Ireland, sometime in the mid 1700's. "Real" Americans chose not to live in "New" England.
Wisely. IMHO,  . It's cold.

[Wells45]

Pah! My father's people came to North Carolina, from Switzerland, in 1710. My mother's people came from Scotland. via Ireland, sometime in the mid 1700's. "Real" Americans chose not to live in "New" England.
Wisely. IMHO,  . It's cold.

My ancestors followed an almost identical path. My surname ancestors were Huguenot's who also settled in North Carolina (specifically New Bern) in 1710. Though French they had fled to Switzerland and came to America with a group of Palatines.

Hmmm, your ancestors and mine might have known each other.  

[Nikola Tesla]

Ah, but New England families are real Americans. Not like the savages who were here when they arrived (and were duped into selling land for beads and axes, and I now suspect have a large stake in eBay)...

Erm, yeah.  The fact that families like mine have been involved in shady real estate for centuries is now a matter for the history books.   

At least I don't delude myself into thinking that's anything to be proud of.  Sure, I like my ancestral stuff because it's part of what makes me me, and the likelihood of my history changing seems small, but I'm well aware that taking the land from the Natives and tearing up the South during the Civil War were kind of, erm, problematic.  Though the last was an act of war and war is hell...at least, that's what the relevant fellow said at the time...but the sneaky suspicion is that it was still all about real estate.  Sigh.

This discussion is making me feel like those movie characters who are vampire hunters, born of vampires! Heh. 

[Sgt.Major Thistlewaite]

Pah! My father's people came to North Carolina, from Switzerland, in 1710. My mother's people came from Scotland. via Ireland, sometime in the mid 1700's. "Real" Americans chose not to live in "New" England.
Wisely. IMHO,  . It's cold.

My ancestors followed an almost identical path. My surname ancestors were Huguenot's who also settled in North Carolina (specifically New Bern) in 1710. Though French they had fled to Switzerland and came to America with a group of Palatines.

Hmmm, your ancestors and mine might have known each other.  

Yes. New Bern. My father's people settled there, and live to this day in Vanceboro, and "Little" Washington.
The family name is "Tuten." Your people may have been my people. Also related to Gaskins, and Ipocks.

[Utini420]

Which just goes to show that Nature is mercilessly inconsiderate. If the tree could have fallen at the right moment, in the right direction, with the realtor correctly placed... 

Damn!  Now why didn't I think of that? 

There are few critters more fun to harass than Realtor.  I have at times done so for pure sport.  They just think they are so damned important.

 (What is it with New England families and real estate, anyway?  )

And to think, here I thought it was a southern thing.   

Real Americans hide in the hills, no matter where they are, laying low from those other Americans.  Unless they're in the hills, in which case the real ones hide in the next valley over.

[Utini420]

Which just goes to show that Nature is mercilessly inconsiderate. If the tree could have fallen at the right moment, in the right direction, with the realtor correctly placed... 

Damn!  Now why didn't I think of that? 

There are few critters more fun to harass than Realtor.  I have at times done so for pure sport.  They just think they are so damned important.

 (What is it with New England families and real estate, anyway?  )

And to think, here I thought it was a southern thing.   

Real Americans hide in the hills, no matter where they are, laying low from those other Americans.  Unless they're in the hills, in which case the real ones hide in the next valley over.

The bummer is that my own family history ain't worth spit.  Mutt stock through and through, "mostly Irish with a bit of Sweedish and Dutch" is the best family tree I ever got from anyone, and grandma was an orphan who flies into a rage at the merest suggestion that she resembles either Mexicans or American Indians.  Seems no one bothered to learn to read until, well, much later than they should have.  No cool stories of exotic or dangerous employment, and all the military was boring Navy stuff (not that all Naval stuff is boring, but hanging out in the boiler room on a frigate sure seems to be).  No family land, no home town, no airloms or stories or even pictures, really.  And I'm the first pack rat either side of the family has seen in at least 4 generations.  Just throw it all away... typical Americans, really. 

[groomporter]

I'm new to steampunk as a term and as a culture, but not as a lifestyle

I think that's part of the misunderstanding. Although there are obviously people who are exceptions, I see Steampunk as often more of a fashion/design style, and less of a "lifestyle"

For comparison, some of the "hippies" of the 60's and early 70's dressed and decorated their homes/communes in certain ways that reflected their political or world views. They ate "macrobiotic" foods because they thought it was more Earth-friendly...etc. So for some of them being a "hippy" was a really a lifestyle and not just a fashion choice.

But there is no specific world view or political view attached to Steampunk (except maybe for the D.I.Y end), so I have a harder time calling SP a "lifestyle," but rather consider it more of a fashion/design aesthetic. I occasionally wear a vest and a pocket watch because I like the look and always loved Sherlock Holmes and H.G. Wells, but I don't have what I would consider an SP, or even Victorian "lifestyle."

[Utini420]

I see it starting as an aesthetic.

I see it growing into something with a lot more meat on its bones, but for that we're gonna have to let go of what is and isn't Victorian -- because frankly, a lot of Victorianism sucked if you weren't in the upper 10% who we tend to imitate.  Lots of folks don't agree with me, and that's fine, but personally I see "steampunk" growing into a catch all phrase of home-spun sustainable non-corporate culture in whatever form it happens to take.  More "steampunk = modern craftsmanship, with green politics," than "steampunk = LARP out of control."

[groomporter]

I wonder about the sustainable end, sure we're recycling things to do case-mods and redecorate rooms, but I could see someone coming out with cheap knock-off clip-on plastic covers for monitors and things

"Tired of that putty grey computer monitor? Buy the Ronco Computer Decorating kit! With these self-adhesive Velcro^tm strips you can cover up that dingy old monitor and change it with your moods, -from this brass and mahogany Neo-Victorian look to a colorful Psychedelic Sixties look!
Act now and you'll also get...

Although I would love to see SP masters like Jake Von Slatt inspire a higher quality craftsman-like movement.

[Wells45]

Pah! My father's people came to North Carolina, from Switzerland, in 1710. My mother's people came from Scotland. via Ireland, sometime in the mid 1700's. "Real" Americans chose not to live in "New" England.
Wisely. IMHO,  . It's cold.

My ancestors followed an almost identical path. My surname ancestors were Huguenot's who also settled in North Carolina (specifically New Bern) in 1710. Though French they had fled to Switzerland and came to America with a group of Palatines.

Hmmm, your ancestors and mine might have known each other.  

Yes. New Bern. My father's people settled there, and live to this day in Vanceboro, and "Little" Washington.
The family name is "Tuten." Your people may have been my people. Also related to Gaskins, and Ipocks.

I found your family, Ipock, with my direct ancestor, Vincent Ameat, on the same list.
http://newbern.cpclib.org/research/settlers.htm

This is sooo cool. Just to think that the fact that 300 years to the year here we are, descendants of these individuals, having met.

[Sgt.Major Thistlewaite]

Very cool! Also note that under "Other possible Swiss Palatines" is a gentleman named John Dept...also spelled Depp...Johnny Depp! Hello, Steampunk Central!

[tophatdan]

I see it starting as an aesthetic.

I see "steampunk" growing into a catch all phrase of home-spun sustainable non-corporate culture in whatever form it happens to take.  More "steampunk = modern craftsmanship, with green politics," than "steampunk = LARP out of control."

that is what im talking about brother, rain water collection mixing with greywater collection in an underground tank that geothermaly cools your workshop and acts as a reservoir for your inground/aboveground/hanging backyard semi-hydroponic garden, garage workshops full of homemade electronic test equipment in wooden cases.


victorian? why does  it have to be imitation of the past.... prior to learning about 'steampunk' i referred to myself as a 21st century gentleman, wear a vest and pocketwatch sometimes, i wear a 4 pocket vest every day, rain or snow, heat or shine.... my garden, exactly as i described above.... i dint know what you mean by LARD out of controll but i think it refers to what i have been saying all along, that currently its a sort of pseudo fantasy genre and what it needs to become is a real subculture....

 craftsmanship doesn't have to mean  hearkening back to the past, it can mean bettering the future, DIY doesn't have to mean junkyard creations, it can mean recycled, home grown, hand made.... if im wrong please tell me, but that's what i believe steampunk maybe not is.... but should be.....

[Gentleman Gaspar]

Well, from what I see, there is a very high possibility that the "steampunk" ways can be adopted into a more realistic and non-LARP culture if good people put the effort into making such a thing into an actual reality. I would assume that after some very good thinking mettle, a couple of schematizing, and several years of hard work there is the possibility of starting a simple "Real Life Steampunk Society." However, in order to reverse-engineer and re-establish a community and make more advanced Steampunk machines, devices, and other such implementations there is a requirement of several decades, perhaps lifetimes. Though I suppose it depends on that effort of which I mentioned earlier.

Of course, there would be limitations....especially to things that are truthfully and obviously impossible. 

[stardust]

i am new to this culture/forum so don't feel i have enough experience to comment. but these are my observations so far. they may well change at a later date.

I think that's part of the misunderstanding. Although there are obviously people who are exceptions, I see Steampunk as often more of a fashion/design style, and less of a "lifestyle"

what i like about steampunk is that it doesn't feel like just a fashion statement to me. i feel i fit in, although i don't own a pair of goggles and do not regularly become emersed in a fantasy world of science fiction. i feel i belong here because all other aspects of my lifestyle have always been quite steampunk and i just didn't realise it. i have always loved steam trains and heavy machinery. i love making models and painting things. i like anything that feels old and have religiously chosen fountain pen over biro for years. i even refuse to use cartridges and refill it from an ink pot. i actually use dipping pens aswell. i use a woodburning stove for heat, burning logs i have chopped myself by hand. i have worked with a victorian funfair, operating all the rides by hand with no electricity. i have lived almost self sufficiently on a farm where we made such things as showers heated by putting an old radiator full of water over a fire. i've bathed in whiskey barrels and made all sorts of creations rather than just go out and buy new things. these are all things i chose to do because they made me happy, and not because they are a current trend.

I see it starting as an aesthetic.

I see it growing into something with a lot more meat on its bones, but for that we're gonna have to let go of what is and isn't Victorian -- because frankly, a lot of Victorianism sucked if you weren't in the upper 10% who we tend to imitate.  Lots of folks don't agree with me, and that's fine, but personally I see "steampunk" growing into a catch all phrase of home-spun sustainable non-corporate culture in whatever form it happens to take.  More "steampunk = modern craftsmanship, with green politics," than "steampunk = LARP out of control."

this is also how i have interpreted it so far. craftmanship and green politics have always been an interest of mine, though i have a lot less time for modern crafts than i do for learning the old ways of making things. i would far rather carve a piece of wood with traditional tools than make something out of a kit using lots of plastics and electricity.

as a fashion statement i'm not particularly interested in the steampunk style, although i do own a top hat. as a lifestyle i realise i have done this for years without realising what it was.

so i believe steampunk as a lifestyle can work, but only if my interpretation of steampunk is correct, which i am willing to admit it may well not be! in which case, i am fine with that because i am not trying to be anything other than happy anyway.

[Violet Rose]

I see it starting as an aesthetic.

I see it growing into something with a lot more meat on its bones, but for that we're gonna have to let go of what is and isn't Victorian -- because frankly, a lot of Victorianism sucked if you weren't in the upper 10% who we tend to imitate. 

Quoted for truth

[stardust]

I see it starting as an aesthetic.

I see it growing into something with a lot more meat on its bones, but for that we're gonna have to let go of what is and isn't Victorian -- because frankly, a lot of Victorianism sucked if you weren't in the upper 10% who we tend to imitate. 

Quoted for truth

isn't that true of every form of nostalgia? the past is just one great rose tinted vision.

[Violet Rose]

Yes, its like people who "regress" to past lives rarely have past incarnations as road sweepers or accountants 

[stardust]

it's like the romantic view we have of pirates. the reality is you had a short life of hard work and hard partying before being killed by a horrible disease, or blown up, or shot, or drowned in a storm. you had to sleep in overcrowded ships with unwashed, sweaty men and very little fresh food and water. it sounds horrendous yet it's the fantasy of so many.

the reality is that we have it better now than we ever have done, yet still we look to a much harder past as being a "better place to be". that's one thing i really like about steampunk is the combination of past and present, and only the best bits of both.

though i do believe i was a bus driver in a past life.

[jringling]

craftsmanship doesn't have to mean  hearkening back to the past, it can mean bettering the future, DIY doesn't have to mean junkyard creations, it can mean recycled, home grown, hand made.... if im wrong please tell me, but that's what i believe steampunk maybe not is.... but should be.....

This element is already there... just look through the tactile threads, Jake Von Slatts' site, Datamancer's site, etc... hat drives me crazy about your posts is that you try to tell people that the scifi element shouldn't be there, because you don't like it...

[Kittybriton]

it's like the romantic view we have of pirates. the reality is you had a short life of hard work and hard partying before being killed by a horrible disease, or blown up, or shot, or drowned in a storm. you had to sleep in overcrowded ships with unwashed, sweaty men and very little fresh food and water. it sounds horrendous yet it's the fantasy of so many.

the reality is that we have it better now than we ever have done, yet still we look to a much harder past as being a "better place to be". that's one thing i really like about steampunk is the combination of past and present, and only the best bits of both.

though i do believe i was a bus driver in a past life.

A few weeks ago in my blog I took a look at some of the things a time-traveller would have to leave behind to avoid altering the timeline/making themselves dangerously conspicuous:
No

• cigarette lighter
• safety matches
• personal electronics (including hearing aids)
• synthetic jewellery
• synthetic fabrics
• modern paper items
• contraceptives
• fountain or biro pens
• lead pencil
• eraser
• contact lenses
• toilet paper

And be prepared for:

• no Anaesthesia (if surgery is needed), analgesia (i.e. painkillers) (although there are herbal alternatives in some cases)
• no antisepsis (if you get an open wound, keep it clean!
• lighting fires using a tinderbox, flint and steel
• living with fleas (if you are unlucky)
• engine-powered transport (you'd better be good with animals of all sorts), be prepared to walk a lot
• no central heating; layered clothing, warming pans and open fires will provide most of your warmth when the weather is cold.

To list just a few aspects of our golden past

[Violet Rose]

Also if you are a woman welcome to a high possibility of dying in childbirth