Are we leaving ourselves open to accusations of Elitism?

[Tanuki]

A little part of me died the day I head a Clash song in a car commercial...

Oh, God...me, too!

Punk died the day it became a musical influence. Then its grave was defiled when it became a clothing style.

[Pixiepunk]

(Actually her mediocre half)
I remember first hearing the term "Steampunk" in regards to the comic book printed in the late nineties.  I wouldn't suggest it; it was pretty sh***y.  At the time, I was big into cyberpunk (books, games, movies, etc.).  Now this was the dark times without internets and cyberwebs and such so getting any information about any subculture was difficult at best.  You had to know someone who heard about a guy whose crazy ex-girlfriend once walked into the wrong party or somesuch.  The crazy thing is, I had considered myself cyberpunk for a long while.  I played the RPG, read "Snow Crash", watched any movie involving hackers, solos, cybers, or skins, and constantly drew pictures of what aquaintances and friends would look like if they were in car wrecks and only my imagined cyber-surgery skills could save them.  Then I met a "true" cyberpunk.  Half-shaved head, stick on internet neck jacks, Neo's wardrobe, and some ridiculous looking needlers and vibro-knives.  I laughed for like ten minutes when he termed me a poser.  You see, he hadn't read half of the books or seen a third of the films I had.  He never modded G.I.Joes with robot parts, but since I didn't adhere to some arbitrary set of bylaws and regulations put forth by the CyberPunk Congress of 1900, and didn't wear the appropriate uniform, I couldn't claim the label.  The same thing happened to me with Magic: The Gathering (I play my creatures behind my lands like a good little noob).  I have even been challenged to epic trivia contests to prove my true devotion to comics.  I know this post is long so I'll get to the point.

Every subculture, every hobby, every quirk that allows people to feel above or at least seperate from the herd has its guardians.  These people are desperate to prove their uniqueness to a group very much like themselves.  Their goal in following the philosophy they have chosen to use to define themselves is somewhat selfish but understandable.  After all, what is the point of devoting your free time to select lifestyle if anyone else can do the same.  They often forget that the notion that first attracted them to the hobby was so pervasive that it took them wholeheartedly into that new world.  With the internets and cyberwebs, trends, fads, and fashions can now spread like wildfire.  What those that are considered "elitist" need to remember is how great, eye-opening, and wonderful it was to find a group of people who shared an interest in the very things they themselves held dear.  Welcome noobs.  Coach them.  Share your opinions and enjoy the comraderie that comes with interacting within a common interest.  They (the noobs) are on the same journey the elites began long ago.

Sorry to take up your time.

---Yes, that was Husband and while I fundamentally agree with his socio-babble, I just say... Let it be & have fun.

[Capt. Dirigible]

On the other hand, I'm still waiting for them to get their hands off punk rock after all these years. A little part of me died the day I head a Clash song in a car commercial...

Count yourself lucky you are not witness to the the cringemaking spectacle of  the TV commercial we have over here of John Lydon (aka Johnny Rotten) anvertising 'Country Life' butter!! Or Iggy Pop plugging 'on-line insurance!

All it will take for Steampunk to go  'mainstream' is for someone like Abney Park to have a major hit single and a accompanying video on MTV....

[Brian_r]

Some would say of course that the likes of Lydon were entirely a media construct running off the bandwagon that was punk. Although , that I think is a debate for another day (or days as it could get a touch long).

I have to agree though, there is something very wrong when a song you love is appropriated and desecrated in order to sell something, even more so if the artist was noted for being anti-establishment.

On the rest of the debate, I tend to agree with pixiepunk "Let it be & have fun.".

[Captain Brandsson]

It is not my fault that I am better than so many people.  I refuse to feel guilty for that.











Oh, who am I kidding?  It is completely my fault that I am better than so many people!

[Archaeo_fozz]

i personaly could not care less if steampunk bacame more mainstream, and large corporate stores began to mass produce steamy apparell, infact i may even welcome it- some of the stuff may be worth takeing appart and reusing! Further more it would open up the genre to people who may have been into steampunk all their lives without even realising it, the only problem would be that loadfs of people would jump onto the band wagon, but who cares we were here first, and they will just as soon jump onto the next band wagon that comes along, some will stick at it and good for them! Also we all will ( i hope) still be here as we were before the fad, not disheartend by the mainSTEAMYness of it all, just carrying on as we did before it happend.

This isnt eletism, its devotion, the onlytime it becomes elitism is when people begin shooting down those who jumped onto the band waggon. These people in my honest opinion, are idiots (on a note here i am not criticising anyone for *well mannerd* defence of steampunk, but rather saying we should let people have ago)

I also feel it nessescary to mention here that many people on this forum could possibly BENEFIT from the mainstreaming of the genre, aferall many of you seek to earn a living from the art that you produce, if this wonderful wonderful community was to grow beyond its underground boundaries, then surley you would welcome the inevitable increased demand for your wears?... Oh dear, i seem to have let my brain wander off with me and I have forgotten where I am going with this post.

to summarise I think the real elitists (they ARE out there) are worse than the posers and wannabees. and on a final note i have to say that i do not think there are any here, i came to this forum without a clue about what i was looking for only that i knew steampunk was for me, everyone who i have asked (and will continue) to ask for advice has helped, and welcomed me with the utmost respect and grace, so mauch that i would go as far to say that i feel i have been welcomed into a large adtopted type of family not a community.

Fozz - (an author of mad wandering ramblings!)

[Hyren von Henry]

can somone PM me when it does become mainstream? there will be a good chance I won't be paying attention....

[Josh of Vernian Process]

i personaly could not care less if steampunk bacame more mainstream, and large corporate stores began to mass produce steamy apparell, infact i may even welcome it- some of the stuff may be worth takeing appart and reusing! Further more it would open up the genre to people who may have been into steampunk all their lives without even realising it, the only problem would be that loadfs of people would jump onto the band wagon, but who cares we were here first, and they will just as soon jump onto the next band wagon that comes along, some will stick at it and good for them! Also we all will ( i hope) still be here as we were before the fad, not disheartend by the mainSTEAMYness of it all, just carrying on as we did before it happend.

This isnt eletism, its devotion, the onlytime it becomes elitism is when people begin shooting down those who jumped onto the band waggon. These people in my honest opinion, are idiots (on a note here i am not criticising anyone for *well mannerd* defence of steampunk, but rather saying we should let people have ago)

I also feel it nessescary to mention here that many people on this forum could possibly BENEFIT from the mainstreaming of the genre, aferall many of you seek to earn a living from the art that you produce, if this wonderful wonderful community was to grow beyond its underground boundaries, then surley you would welcome the inevitable increased demand for your wears?... Oh dear, i seem to have let my brain wander off with me and I have forgotten where I am going with this post.

to summarise I think the real elitists (they ARE out there) are worse than the posers and wannabees. and on a final note i have to say that i do not think there are any here, i came to this forum without a clue about what i was looking for only that i knew steampunk was for me, everyone who i have asked (and will continue) to ask for advice has helped, and welcomed me with the utmost respect and grace, so mauch that i would go as far to say that i feel i have been welcomed into a large adtopted type of family not a community.

Fozz - (an author of mad wandering ramblings!)

Yeah but you have to admit there is something extremely pleasing about being a part of an underground subculture. One of the few left that hasn't been optioned by the mainstream media and turned into a sad parody of itself.

Oh and speaking of commercials butchering songs. The biggest offender I ever saw was The Smiths "How Soon is Now" in a Mercedes commercial. The offending part of the commercial was the opening line (talking about the upholstery)... "Forty feet of leather"...

I'm sure Morrissey "Meat is Murder" was really happy about that. LOL

[steamtastic]

at the risk of sounding like a moron, how old exactly is steampunk? i know that's it's been around a while so i suppose i won't be unlikely that it will become mainstream soon. or am i completely wrong? i know this contradicts myself but i don't believe I've ever the word "steampunk" on TV before. but i don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing if i go by the previous posts. Jesus am i rambling...

[Captain Brandsson]

What does "mainstream" really mean, anyhow?

[Archaeo_fozz]

I have taken "Mainstream" (as a result of my back ground in Archaeology/Anthropology and religious culture) to mean the widespread popularisation of a topic/theme/style. I will however when i get a chance to a little realy research into the meaning of the word - i love a linguistic challenge, even if my typing and grammatical skills suggest otherwise!

And yes i do agree that being part of an underground culture is kinda fun, people automaticaly think that i am intersting (and oddly - inteligent) as a result. I hostely think though that after the inevitable popularisation of the genre that its sturdy followers will retreat back into our dank underground catacombs and continue on as we are now. most other genres/subcultures/traditions do, and occasionaly from time to time will see an occasional resurgence

[stowaway]

i think you guys need to see the window of bloomingdales here in new york.  if it's still up the next time i'm in the neighborhood, i'll try to post a picture.  but just let me say: mainsteam.

[Josh of Vernian Process]

at the risk of sounding like a moron, how old exactly is steampunk? i know that's it's been around a while so i suppose i won't be unlikely that it will become mainstream soon. or am i completely wrong? i know this contradicts myself but i don't believe I've ever the word "steampunk" on TV before. but i don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing if i go by the previous posts. Jesus am i rambling...

You don't sound like a Moron, and the phrase Steampunk was coined in 1987 by Sci-Fi author KW Jeter.

"Jeter, along with fellow novelists Tim Powers and James Blaylock, seems to be carving out a new sub-genre of science fiction with his new book (Infernal Devices). Whereas such authors as William Gibson, Michael Swanwick and Walter Jon Williams have explored the futuristic commingling of human being and computer in their "cyberpunk" novels and stories, Jeter and his compatriots, whom he half-jokingly has dubbed "steampunks," are having a grand time creating wacko historical fantasies.
—Michael Berry, "Wacko Victorian Fantasy Follows 'Cyberpunk' Mold," The San Francisco Chronicle, June 25, 1987 "

Although I'd say it goes back to the early 70's with Michael Moorcock's "Warlord of the Air".

And Steampunk has been mentioned on both MTV and G4 in just the past 9 months.

[Utini420]

What's in the window?  Obviously its something mainstream, but is it just lame mall crap, or full of cogs?

[leeps]

On the other hand, I'm still waiting for them to get their hands off punk rock after all these years. A little part of me died the day I head a Clash song in a car commercial...

Count yourself lucky you are not witness to the the cringemaking spectacle of  the TV commercial we have over here of John Lydon (aka Johnny Rotten) anvertising 'Country Life' butter!! Or Iggy Pop plugging 'on-line insurance!

Are you serious about John Lydon appearing in a commercial for butter?? Now that is just weird! Of all the products I could picture him promoting, butter does not spring to mind. Unless the butter contains spit, or can be used as hair gel.

[TimeTinker]

I hate to inflict this on you but check out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mSE-Iy_tFY

You will cringe - you have been warned.

[Capt. Dirigible]

On the other hand, I'm still waiting for them to get their hands off punk rock after all these years. A little part of me died the day I head a Clash song in a car commercial...

Count yourself lucky you are not witness to the the cringemaking spectacle of  the TV commercial we have over here of John Lydon (aka Johnny Rotten) anvertising 'Country Life' butter!! Or Iggy Pop plugging 'on-line insurance!

Are you serious about John Lydon appearing in a commercial for butter?? Now that is just weird! Of all the products I could picture him promoting, butter does not spring to mind. Unless the butter contains spit, or can be used as hair gel.

Deadly serious...check it out

[leeps]

Ok, you were right...I cringed! Haha! 

[clairdelune]

I think the John Lydon ad is funny.  Much more appropriate for him than that pathetic reunion tour.  The Sex Pistols under the machine that was Malcolm Mclaren commodified punk into a certain look and style(thanks to Vivienne Westwood and publicity stunts).  At least John Lydon knows he's making a parody of himself.*

As far as steampunk goes, I don't think there's any benefit to calling out johnny come latelys.  It's not like we were all teething on helical gears when we were pups.  More people at the party means more innovation.

*I think we have a long way to go til Abney Park or Vernian Process start shilling for butter or breakfast cereals.  Not so sure about Dr. Steel, though...

[leeps]

*I think we have a long way to go til Abney Park or Vernian Process start shilling for butter or breakfast cereals.  Not so sure about Dr. Steel, though...

I would definitely purchase Abney Park Buttery Flavored Hair-Spiking Gel, or Vernian Process Cog-Shaped Crunch Cereal.

[TimeTinker]

Can you combine to two into "a breakfast fit for a truly innovative steampunk, so good Dr Steel signed the box"

[Josh of Vernian Process]

*I think we have a long way to go til Abney Park or Vernian Process start shilling for butter or breakfast cereals.  Not so sure about Dr. Steel, though...

I would definitely purchase Abney Park Buttery Flavored Hair-Spiking Gel, or Vernian Process Cog-Shaped Crunch Cereal.

So would I! Actually I would sell any product that I support personally. For instance when Quizno's first opened around here (god almost 8 years ago I think now) I swore up and down that they were the fast food of the gods, and I would be their spokesperson in a heartbeat LOL.

Especially if I got a lifetime supply of Chicken Carbonara sandwiches. =D

[Nikola Tesla]

Especially if I got a lifetime supply of Chicken Carbonara sandwiches. =D

My fave too...great minds think alike...

...back to topic, for those not interested in Quizno's or who reside outside its purview...[/aside]

[garingling]

What's in the window?  Obviously its something mainstream, but is it just lame mall crap, or full of cogs?

Yeah, I want to know too.

[Utini420]

Forget it, I just want that cereal now.  Or any cereal, for that matter.  We got any Cpt. Crunch around here?