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Author Topic: Non-steamed steampunk guns  (Read 300953 times)
Argus Fairbrass
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« Reply #775 on: October 22, 2013, 05:20:57 pm »



Mt wife's birthday present.  Although the barrel is surprisingly heavy and it would probably be safe to shoot (after extensive testing), the lock does not line up so it is a non-firing prop for now.   My research so far leads me to believe that it is a Sindhi made jezail made between 1850 and 1900.  Still cleaning it up and repairing it. 


Have you ever seen the film Wanted? not a great movie by any means, but it did feature some rather interestingly modded antique guns, including wheel locks mocked up with magazines, and this rather intriguing fantasy sniper rifle. I believe it's essentially a Jezail given a barrel mount and modern scope.

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« Reply #776 on: October 22, 2013, 06:47:55 pm »

That movie is very near the top of my shit-list, and I will gladly punch anyone in the face who proclaims it's a decent movie.. Grin
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« Reply #777 on: October 22, 2013, 07:34:47 pm »



Mt wife's birthday present.  Although the barrel is surprisingly heavy and it would probably be safe to shoot (after extensive testing), the lock does not line up so it is a non-firing prop for now.   My research so far leads me to believe that it is a Sindhi made jezail made between 1850 and 1900.  Still cleaning it up and repairing it. 


Have you ever seen the film Wanted? not a great movie by any means, but it did feature some rather interestingly modded antique guns, including wheel locks mocked up with magazines, and this rather intriguing fantasy sniper rifle. I believe it's essentially a Jezail given a barrel mount and modern scope.




The GN was good.
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« Reply #778 on: November 02, 2013, 06:21:58 am »

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/07/15/was-clyde-farrells-rocket-machine-gun-a-hoax/  This sounds like a gun out of a Doc Savage book.  Although it was treated as a hoax it sounds remarkably similar to the real gyrojets made in the 1960s.  Not a bad RPG plot lead.




I did a bit of research to dissuade someone from using a gyrojet rifle in a forum RP once, since they tended to the more realistic side of things, but the history of the rocket bullet is quite interesting.

The earliest confirmed, "working" rocket bullet (as distinct from self contained cartridges, like the Volcano rifle used), were developed in Nazi Germany for use in lightweight smoothbore firearms, but never really succeeded. The British, American, French and Czech experiments didn't go anywhere, and it was really only MBA Associates who did any extensive work on the concept*. As an interesting aside, there has, in recent years, been a Ukrainian bullet similar in design to the French rocket bullet tested, and a company in England, quite possibly started by members of that Ukrainian project, has done the same. Sadly, the round offers nothing over current Russian 9x19mm ammunition (with the exception of penetration, since the Russian ammo doesn't use WC penetrators), but it's pretty cool nonethless.

The history of self-contained cartridges is even more interesting, from what little I've looked into, and would fit especially well into a Steampunk setting. Lengthen the projectile a bit (Krupp's 3 caliber bullet with a 1 caliber ogive would do the trick, although I'd much prefer a 5.5 caliber projectile with 1.5-2 caliber ogive) and used a compressed black powder load like the early .303 British rounds (single perforation in the propellant block, density is roughly 1.3 grams/20 grains per cubic centimeter) and you'd have something capable of rivaling the Chassepot. A bit heavier perhaps, depending on the quality of your steel, but it does do away with the case entirely and lends itself to recoil and manually operated designs.

*The Dutch and a South American country whose name I can't remember (Argentina, I think) did delve into the rocket bullet around the same time as MBA, but I don't think their programs lasted as long as MBA.
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« Reply #779 on: November 02, 2013, 05:49:33 pm »

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/07/15/was-clyde-farrells-rocket-machine-gun-a-hoax/  This sounds like a gun out of a Doc Savage book.  Although it was treated as a hoax it sounds remarkably similar to the real gyrojets made in the 1960s.  Not a bad RPG plot lead.




I did a bit of research to dissuade someone from using a gyrojet rifle in a forum RP once, since they tended to the more realistic side of things, but the history of the rocket bullet is quite interesting.

The earliest confirmed, "working" rocket bullet (as distinct from self contained cartridges, like the Volcano rifle used), were developed in Nazi Germany for use in lightweight smoothbore firearms, but never really succeeded. The British, American, French and Czech experiments didn't go anywhere, and it was really only MBA Associates who did any extensive work on the concept*. As an interesting aside, there has, in recent years, been a Ukrainian bullet similar in design to the French rocket bullet tested, and a company in England, quite possibly started by members of that Ukrainian project, has done the same. Sadly, the round offers nothing over current Russian 9x19mm ammunition (with the exception of penetration, since the Russian ammo doesn't use WC penetrators), but it's pretty cool nonethless.

The history of self-contained cartridges is even more interesting, from what little I've looked into, and would fit especially well into a Steampunk setting. Lengthen the projectile a bit (Krupp's 3 caliber bullet with a 1 caliber ogive would do the trick, although I'd much prefer a 5.5 caliber projectile with 1.5-2 caliber ogive) and used a compressed black powder load like the early .303 British rounds (single perforation in the propellant block, density is roughly 1.3 grams/20 grains per cubic centimeter) and you'd have something capable of rivaling the Chassepot. A bit heavier perhaps, depending on the quality of your steel, but it does do away with the case entirely and lends itself to recoil and manually operated designs.

*The Dutch and a South American country whose name I can't remember (Argentina, I think) did delve into the rocket bullet around the same time as MBA, but I don't think their programs lasted as long as MBA.



I have wondered about something similar, regarding the Volcanic Repeating Arms pistol and the Rocket Ball bullets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_Repeating_Arms

The charge of black powder in the Rocket Ball meant the rounds were a bit under powered. I have wondered if the round was a bit longer with a larger charge, would they have had a bit more ummph? From the steampunk point of view, what if someone had come up with a more powerful smokeless powder at an earlier time than happened in our reality?


Chris
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Charles III
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« Reply #780 on: November 02, 2013, 06:23:46 pm »

Here's my rebuilt Colt 45 1911. I put a skeletonized trigger, SS barrel, SS recoil spring cover and i made a bunch of new grips for it.




And here's my homemade bullet holder. It holds 47 rounds.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 06:35:02 pm by Charles III » Logged
The Gunner
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« Reply #781 on: November 02, 2013, 09:47:36 pm »

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/07/15/was-clyde-farrells-rocket-machine-gun-a-hoax/  This sounds like a gun out of a Doc Savage book.  Although it was treated as a hoax it sounds remarkably similar to the real gyrojets made in the 1960s.  Not a bad RPG plot lead.




I did a bit of research to dissuade someone from using a gyrojet rifle in a forum RP once, since they tended to the more realistic side of things, but the history of the rocket bullet is quite interesting.

The earliest confirmed, "working" rocket bullet (as distinct from self contained cartridges, like the Volcano rifle used), were developed in Nazi Germany for use in lightweight smoothbore firearms, but never really succeeded. The British, American, French and Czech experiments didn't go anywhere, and it was really only MBA Associates who did any extensive work on the concept*. As an interesting aside, there has, in recent years, been a Ukrainian bullet similar in design to the French rocket bullet tested, and a company in England, quite possibly started by members of that Ukrainian project, has done the same. Sadly, the round offers nothing over current Russian 9x19mm ammunition (with the exception of penetration, since the Russian ammo doesn't use WC penetrators), but it's pretty cool nonethless.

The history of self-contained cartridges is even more interesting, from what little I've looked into, and would fit especially well into a Steampunk setting. Lengthen the projectile a bit (Krupp's 3 caliber bullet with a 1 caliber ogive would do the trick, although I'd much prefer a 5.5 caliber projectile with 1.5-2 caliber ogive) and used a compressed black powder load like the early .303 British rounds (single perforation in the propellant block, density is roughly 1.3 grams/20 grains per cubic centimeter) and you'd have something capable of rivaling the Chassepot. A bit heavier perhaps, depending on the quality of your steel, but it does do away with the case entirely and lends itself to recoil and manually operated designs.

*The Dutch and a South American country whose name I can't remember (Argentina, I think) did delve into the rocket bullet around the same time as MBA, but I don't think their programs lasted as long as MBA.



I have wondered about something similar, regarding the Volcanic Repeating Arms pistol and the Rocket Ball bullets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_Repeating_Arms

The charge of black powder in the Rocket Ball meant the rounds were a bit under powered. I have wondered if the round was a bit longer with a larger charge, would they have had a bit more ummph? From the steampunk point of view, what if someone had come up with a more powerful smokeless powder at an earlier time than happened in our reality?


Chris



Ammonpulver would be an excellent choice, IMO. Certain versions (80-90% ammonium nitrate and 0-10% charcoal) are just as powerful as early smokeless powders, but burn at lower temperatures, produce almost no flash and very little smoke.

I actually didn't know any of that until I stumbled across it trying to see how early smokeless powder could have been produced. It's probably the easiest way to safely get smokeless powder before we had it in real life, and was even used by Austria in WW1.

Here's my rebuilt Colt 45 1911. I put a skeletonized trigger, SS barrel, SS recoil spring cover and i made a bunch of new grips for it.




And here's my homemade bullet holder. It holds 47 rounds.




That is a really awesome idea, especially for revolvers.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 09:49:16 pm by The Gunner » Logged
Charles III
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« Reply #782 on: November 03, 2013, 03:36:13 am »

Here's my antique double barrel single shot.


« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 03:38:24 am by Charles III » Logged
The Gunner
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« Reply #783 on: November 03, 2013, 09:02:50 am »

Here's my antique double barrel single shot.





It looks like there are two triggers. How hard would it be to pull only one if you wanted to?
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« Reply #784 on: December 01, 2013, 12:32:40 am »

Here's my rebuilt Colt 45 1911. I put a skeletonized trigger, SS barrel, SS recoil spring cover and i made a bunch of new grips for it.




And here's my homemade bullet holder. It holds 47 rounds.




That bullet holder is one of the cooler things I've seen this week!  Would love something like that (maybe not so big) for my .45 LC Peacemakers.  Course, my thinking on that is, it would be a bit heavy, what with the weight of nearly 50 bullets...  Anyway, bravo, very nice!
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Argus Fairbrass
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« Reply #785 on: February 12, 2014, 09:42:29 pm »

It's no good, I cannot allow this thread to die. Personally I'm utterly disinterested in ray guns and modded Nerfs, but this the good stuff right here. So just to give it a boost, a few more smexy engraved Mauser C96's and variants.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A brief note to UK residents. I was talking a while back about the various C96 carbines. I just recently purchased this from these guys.

The cheapest price I could find on the net currently. No problems with delivery, so I would state the sites proclaiming nothing gun shaped can be legally shipped in the UK anymore are full of doo doo, and should consider changing couriers. On arrival the box was a bit knackered however, no instructions and an inexplicable hole in the magazine. They replaced that and sent me the instructions which are in wonderful Engrish, but do have some useful diagrams (no offer to refund my postage however).

Still the gun itself was in fine condition and pretty damn good for that price. It is non blow back but quite powerful. Almost completely full metal throughout and very ruggedly made. The magazines can be a bit leaky and do rattle about a bit. Still as I really wanted it as a prop/wall hanger I must say it certainly looks good and does that job admirably.

No trade marks on it and It does come in that attractive blue colour, those select few that are UKARA registered need not put up with that of course. Do bear in mind however that the colour is what keeps it legal for us non exempt folks, and changing it is an offence.

Although I do concur that a law that allows anyone over 18 to buy a deactivated replica, or indeed a more powerful air pistol variant in a realistic colour, but only allows the purchase of a BB gun in garish tellytubbie hues, is extremely sensible and should be upheld at all times. Whether you choose to comply is of course up to you. Still in truth I think it's quite pretty Cheesy and on the bright side, at least we don't have to have a bright red plug on the end.

Apparently there is some debate as to whether the furniture is real wood. Most sites state that it isn't, the box states that it is. I have to say if it's fake wood it's some of the best I've seen and has a very solid feel. Quite light in colour it appears to have a light grain even on the inside, and with gentle sanding takes wood stain very well. The stock and fore grip are both detachable, as it is essentially the HFC M712 (Schnellfeuer) with a longer barrel. I'm currently looking to acquire a broomhandle for it, and will be purchasing the short magazine separately for the more classic look.

If I can't get a broomhandle I could saw the rifle butt down I guess, although that seems a bit of a waste.  It's certainly cheaper than the blow back but all plastic Marushin model (at least in the UK anyway, remember we often have to put up with insane mark ups on these things as well as UKARA). There have been some very good all metal blow back models made in the past. they are rare and pretty expensive to acquire these days however.

http://www.modelguns.co.uk/mausercarbine.htm

Still if you're as bonkers about everything C96 related as I am, I'd say at that price the HFC is worth considering.

Now I just need to decide how I'm going to pimp it out.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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D.Oakes
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« Reply #786 on: February 12, 2014, 09:49:21 pm »

c96 porn....I officially lack the ability to speak proper sentences.....


MY DREAM GUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #787 on: February 12, 2014, 10:10:56 pm »

There are some very cheap airsoft guns that could use a good mod... I can post links if you like.

And is it pneumatic, canister, or spring?

And for the last picture, the one with the two red pistols, where did you find them?

This one:

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Argus Fairbrass
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« Reply #788 on: February 12, 2014, 10:14:50 pm »

The HFC is a gas gun. As I say modifications are a bit of an iffy subject in the UK. This is only available in Japan as far as I know. All plastic and probably non firing, still it looks cool.

http://www.poseidon.co.jp/2F/cthugha/cth01.html
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 10:16:38 pm by Argus Fairbrass » Logged
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« Reply #789 on: February 12, 2014, 10:23:05 pm »

There are some cheap 5 dollar ones that I found, might buy in bulk and scrap them for parts.

I'm looking for some older looking ones, like the older Browning 1901, for pistols at least.
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Argus Fairbrass
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« Reply #790 on: February 12, 2014, 10:40:55 pm »

I'm actually having a devil of a time, trying to find any type of replica of the original Colt 1911, as opposed to the 1911 A1 which came later.

They are virtually identical, but there are some noticeable differences.



Other than a slightly different handle and trigger shape, you can see the A1 has a subtle bevelling around the trigger. These two presentation models highlight the original lines quite nicely.



Unfortunately all the replicas I've come across, are based on the A1 or it's innumerable variants. I want the one that's more in keeping with the Steampunk time line if you see what I mean.  Grin
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 10:46:24 pm by Argus Fairbrass » Logged
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« Reply #791 on: February 12, 2014, 10:46:37 pm »

I understand completely. If you want to see some nice varients, look at Ivory and Ebony from the Devil May Cry series of video games. Both have different spurs, huge compensators, and numerous other features.
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Argus Fairbrass
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« Reply #792 on: February 12, 2014, 11:21:43 pm »

Ebony and Ivory are indeed quite droolsome (big DMC fan here). I actually tracked down a company that made some very good replicas of them. They also seem to offer some quite pimped out kits for the Marushins. I believe they may be responsible for the (full metal) Gold and Silver M712's, which I'll admit I'm badly Jonesing for.

http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/146074-marushin-m712-goldsilver-kits-detonics-silver-kit-and-marui-pistol-parts/

I would personally antique and engrave something like that quite happily, to give it more this style of appearance.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That's quite blinging enough though, I'll admit in their current form they're a bit pimp daddy for me.  Cheesy

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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« Reply #793 on: February 12, 2014, 11:45:54 pm »

What movie is that?

And I can see the blinging, only thing to worry about would be puncturing and aging. Electric Dremel engrave or possibly heat knife? And there are several real life Ebony and Ivory's out there, but they are so modded they are not very practical for the round they shoot.
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Argus Fairbrass
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« Reply #794 on: February 13, 2014, 12:45:21 am »

I'm not even sure it's a film, might just be a promo shot, Agent 1969 hehe. Here's the link I found it under and couldn't find any more info.

http://www.air-gun.ru/social/readtopic/2322

Yeah I realise it's style over functionality with some of this stuff. I don't personally tend to worry about that too much in the context I wish to use them in. The reason I like the Marushins, is because they do look to function very much like the originals. They even eject dummy shells, making them pretty ideal as film props, which is my main interest for acquiring all this stuff at present.

But with real wooden handles and full trades, you will pay through the nose for them, certainly in the UK. Apparently the gold finish can be removed pretty easily, so it may need some work to protect it. I've never held one so I don't know what the metal quality is like (I'm guessing it's aluminium). I have to say on the HFC I have it seems damn good, definitely a cut above your average pot metal. But very light engraving may well be in order for the Marushins.

As for the UKARA thing we have here, some sites seem to be saying the gold finish actually makes them exempt from that. I see Umarex now have a similar Mauser M712 in their legends series. This is actually powerful enough that it counts as an air gun in the UK, so once again UKARA exempt (but must be purchased face to face and proof of age is required). Unfortunately, unlike their Luger in the same series the Mauser is plastic. I suspect there may be plans afoot to release an even pricier metal version in future, in much the same way Marushin did.
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« Reply #795 on: February 13, 2014, 03:55:56 pm »

Gold Finish would not make them exempt from the VCRA (they can't be exempt from UKARA, as that is a retailers association) there are very straight forward colours that make them Imitation Firearms rather than Realistic Imitation Firearms.

  • transparent
  • bright red
  • bright orange
  • bright blue
  • bright yellow
  • bright green
  • bright pink
  • bright purple
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 03:57:45 pm by Major Willoughby Chase » Logged
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« Reply #796 on: February 13, 2014, 07:17:19 pm »

The HFC is a gas gun. As I say modifications are a bit of an iffy subject in the UK. This is only available in Japan as far as I know. All plastic and probably non firing, still it looks cool.

http://www.poseidon.co.jp/2F/cthugha/cth01.html

Poseidons are a constant subject for knock of copies as they will not ship to alot of countries. I have be after the Seburo MN23 and CX but only come across recast from the EU!
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Argus Fairbrass
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« Reply #797 on: February 14, 2014, 04:26:03 am »

Gold Finish would not make them exempt from the VCRA (they can't be exempt from UKARA, as that is a retailers association) there are very straight forward colours that make them Imitation Firearms rather than Realistic Imitation Firearms.

  • transparent
  • bright red
  • bright orange
  • bright blue
  • bright yellow
  • bright green
  • bright pink
  • bright purple

Yeah obviously I meant exempt from the retailers having to impose VCRA restrictions on their sale. I realise that's what it says, I think some retailers may consider gold falls under the bright yellow category. That is obviously stretching things a tad, but these aren't the most financially solvent of times we're in and folks want to sell. These guns aren't cheap, or indeed to everyone's taste, so although quite popular I doubt they're exactly selling like hot cakes. When folks without exemption are waving a few 100 bones under their nose, I would imagine if there's a conceivable loophole some might be tempted to take advantage of that.

And yes I know, they could lose their license, possibly face prosecution, and it might even lead to further restrictions. All true, which rather aptly demonstrates what a bloody desperate situation we're in with all of this, as despite that fact some appear to be risking it anyway. Also why I won't be linking to any of them.

The best part being of course, if it was a more powerful 1.77 or .22 caliber and therefore classed as an air pistol, the colour restrictions wouldn't even apply.

I'm an adult, it's a pop gun, but rules is rules and blah de blah. I don't want to start a big row and there's really little point anyway as it certainly won't change anything. As I've said before, exempt or not we all know they are far more likely to crack down than ease up on this stuff, hence we don't make a big noise about it.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 04:31:58 am by Argus Fairbrass » Logged
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« Reply #798 on: February 14, 2014, 02:56:42 pm »

I'm not even sure it's a film, might just be a promo shot, Agent 1969 hehe. Here's the link I found it under and couldn't find any more info.

http://www.air-gun.ru/social/readtopic/2322

Yeah I realise it's style over functionality with some of this stuff. I don't personally tend to worry about that too much in the context I wish to use them in. The reason I like the Marushins, is because they do look to function very much like the originals. They even eject dummy shells, making them pretty ideal as film props, which is my main interest for acquiring all this stuff at present.

But with real wooden handles and full trades, you will pay through the nose for them, certainly in the UK. Apparently the gold finish can be removed pretty easily, so it may need some work to protect it. I've never held one so I don't know what the metal quality is like (I'm guessing it's aluminium). I have to say on the HFC I have it seems damn good, definitely a cut above your average pot metal. But very light engraving may well be in order for the Marushins.

As for the UKARA thing we have here, some sites seem to be saying the gold finish actually makes them exempt from that. I see Umarex now have a similar Mauser M712 in their legends series. This is actually powerful enough that it counts as an air gun in the UK, so once again UKARA exempt (but must be purchased face to face and proof of age is required). Unfortunately, unlike their Luger in the same series the Mauser is plastic. I suspect there may be plans afoot to release an even pricier metal version in future, in much the same way Marushin did.


It's a still from Соловей-Разбойник ("Nightingale the Robber") starring Ivan Okhlobystin.

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« Reply #799 on: February 14, 2014, 05:22:56 pm »


It's a still from Соловей-Разбойник ("Nightingale the Robber") starring Ivan Okhlobystin.




Thanks.  Smiley
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