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Author Topic: Non-steamed steampunk guns  (Read 301051 times)
Captain Reech
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« Reply #100 on: July 10, 2009, 05:07:32 pm »

The BAR can be fitted with an effecient and effective "Sidhe Stopper" In the form of a WW1 Butcher Bayonet, failing that it's a bloody great lump of beautifully solid steel and I can atest (from personal experience!) That if someone were to clobber you with one, you would know it!

An interesting an novel thought has arisen on dealing with the Seelie and Unseelie, headbutt them whilst wearing an early period 'Shrapnel Helmet'...................................

<Crunch>

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(Best delivered with a broad Glaswegian or Geordie accent for full and authentic effect!)
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tophatdan
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« Reply #101 on: July 10, 2009, 11:27:29 pm »


aside from the fact that an iron bullet would completely destroy the rifling in a gun in a few shots, and severely reduce range/accuracy in any weapon rifled or not, i just wonder where you folks are getting the iron thing...i have read about it here in like 3 diff. forums, its a common thing....  but when i go looking about or it on line the only references to iron "killing demons and gods" and all that jazz, is in the terms of role playing games and other fictions....

i would excuse myself as i have never heard this particular myth or legend, tho i do know that iron nails are used for certain dispersions of witchcraft and the like, as well as silver, brass, copper, gold and a number of other metals and alloys... however iron as an end all be all to demonics and even "gods" (i wont address the obvious problem with the idea of killing a "god") i just cant find any reference to this in any of my books on the topic, or to it in anything on line other than role playing and gaming texts....

if you have another source, please let me know as i would be interested to read the 'actual implimentation of iron against demonics.
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JosephR
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« Reply #102 on: July 11, 2009, 03:02:50 am »

I know nothing of the efficacy of iron against demons or gods, only against the Sidhe, also known as the Tuatha de Dannan (People of the Goddess Danu), the Fae, or simply Faerie - more commonly today, Fairies.  Though they are thought by some to be a people unique to Ireland and Scotland, other peoples all over the world tell similar stories.  The Irish often refer to them as the "good folk" the "good people" or the "good neighbors."

Some say the Tuatha de Dannan were simply a bronze age people of Ireland who were vanquished by those wielding iron weapons.  Others say they were a race apart, supernatural and with strange powers.  When defeated by the sons of Mil (or Mir), they were driven underground, either by force, or by cunning.  The latter story goes that having been defeated they agreed to divide the land equally with the sons of Mil.  The latter chose the half above ground, leaving the half below the the Sidhe.  Still others say they retreated into a world (also sometimes referred to as Faerie) that is on a different level of time and space, existing alongside ours but usually invisible to us.  The veil between worlds can be thin in particular places and is particularly thin on Samhain (Hallowe'en).  They can cross into our world with much more ease than we can into theirs, but occasionally humans will blunder into theirs by accident or be taken into it by them, never to be seen again.

At the very least, I'm sure you've heard of the Bean Sidhe or banshee ("woman of the Sidhe"), who comes forth to mourn the pending death of a human.

Nonetheless, all accounts seem to agree that the Sidhe are particularly vulnerable to weapons of iron and sometimes its mere presence is enough to ward them off.


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Captain Lyerly
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« Reply #103 on: July 12, 2009, 04:07:19 am »

"Cold" iron has been referenced often in myth as useful - perhaps not against demons and gods, but against regular spirits, evil magic (and those who cast it), and illusions.  Many money-changers would have a small anvil, and an illusionary false gold coin that struck it would supposedly revert - and of course if there was only non-magical fakery going on, a coin that did not "ring true" would be found out as well.

Many AP rounds had an iron or steel penetrator core.  If you took some of these and made them up as sabot rounds, you would have a very accurate, high-velocity iron projectile that would do no damage at all to your rifling.

Same with silver, if you want to go that route.  I have some broken bits of this and that - a snapped sterling fork, for instance - that I am thinking of casting into bullets.  The fork would cost about the same to fix as it is worth, so it is a wash; I would only get a fraction of the bullion price if I sold it to a dealer, so I have no problem there.  The only challenges are technical - how to make sure it won't damage the mold, and how to get it hot enough without damaging me.  Then, if I am worried about my rifling - do I really want to shoot this stuff?  I don't think so... I could make them up as sabot rounds.


Good luck!


Chas.
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Captain Sir Charles A. Lyerly, O.B.T.
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Baron von Landau
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« Reply #104 on: July 12, 2009, 04:41:48 am »

As far as silver bullets are concerned, I seem to recall Mythbusters played around with them a bit the other year. They seemed to have no trouble firing them repeatedly without causing damage to their guns (I'm supposing that if the rifling had been ruined, successive shots would not have been accurate, which they were).

Still, they were using revolvers, so I don't know if semi-automatics or rifles would have fared as well.
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JosephR
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« Reply #105 on: July 12, 2009, 11:43:42 am »

Silver will not damage the rifling of rifles or pistols.  It is softer than copper which is used to form the jackets of virtually all modern bullets.  Like copper, it will foul the rifling and must be scrubbed out periodically to preserve accuracy, but it won't do any lasting damage.

For example: Once upon a time there was an old Remington 725 .30-06 bolt-action rifle.  At the time it was built, it was Remington's top of the line rifle.  The owner had it for years and really loved it, but its accuracy had fallen off dramatically.  In trying to make it shoot better he glass-bedded and floated the barrel.  He even added a custom trigger.  All to no avail.  Finally, he put it up for sale at a bargain price because he just couldn't get it to shoot.

A friend of mine told me about it, so I went into the gun shop where it was on consignment.  I took one look down the barrel and bought it.

After cleaning God only knows how much copper fouling out of the barrel, it's now a tack-driver and my favorite rifle.
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Captain Reech
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« Reply #106 on: July 13, 2009, 01:23:15 pm »

Which just goes to show that you can buy the best, even spend a fortune having it custom rigged, but if you don't look after it you might as well have bought something cheap and replaced it reguarly. I wonder if the guy had ever looked at the cleaning kits for sale in the shop he took it to for the custom work!
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Sir Nikolas Vendigroth
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« Reply #107 on: July 13, 2009, 03:12:08 pm »

The simplest answer's the best, usually  Roll Eyes

Still, his loss, your gain.
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JosephR
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« Reply #108 on: July 13, 2009, 03:28:01 pm »

I deleted my previous post because I was a bit off the mark, pun intended. Smiley

The barrel floating, glass bedding and trigger replacement were DIY projects, not custom shop work.  These are easily accomplished by pretty much anyone with simple tools and opposable thumbs.  He did overdo the barrel floating: ideally one should be able to slip a playing card between the barrel and the stock, in this case one could get several in the gap.  But it's still floated, so it doesn't really matter.

The cleaning kits sold in most shops are worthless when it comes to copper fouling: copper solvent is usually not included.  And many of the take-down cleaning rods sold with these kits can actually damage a rifle's bore.  But then I was taught gun-cleaning and maintenance by an old curmudgeon who could shoot a dime-sized group at 300 yards with a .223 (I watched him do it) so maybe what I do along those lines isn't really necessary for the average shooter.  But then, who wants to be average? Grin
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tophatdan
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« Reply #109 on: July 15, 2009, 05:23:37 am »

For example: Once upon a time there was an old Remington 725 .30-06 bolt-action rifle.  At the time it was built, it was Remington's top of the line rifle.  The owner had it for years and really loved it, but its accuracy had fallen off dramatically.  In trying to make it shoot better he glass-bedded and floated the barrel.  He even added a custom trigger.  All to no avail.  Finally, he put it up for sale at a bargain price because he just couldn't get it to shoot.

A friend of mine told me about it, so I went into the gun shop where it was on consignment.  I took one look down the barrel and bought it.

After cleaning God only knows how much copper fouling out of the barrel, it's now a tack-driver and my favorite rifle.


a Remington 725 .30-06 with a glass bed and floated barrel.... very nice brother, not many people bother to glass bed these days, its allmost a dying art (depending on the area i assume) that is quite the find there sir and i hope you enjoy it and take better care of it than the original owner, i assume from reading your posts that you will, the fact that anyone without a background in gunsmithing or comp shooting would notice a glass bed is amazing enough to me, my question is tho, how did he bed it? was it a store bought glass bed kit with the poly  acraglass,   or was it homemade with like gauze gun oil and clay or did he do it with lipstick and nail polish (i have seen that and yes it works) i would love to know...
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JosephR
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« Reply #110 on: July 15, 2009, 10:52:57 am »

a Remington 725 .30-06 with a glass bed and floated barrel.... very nice brother, not many people bother to glass bed these days, its allmost a dying art (depending on the area i assume) that is quite the find there sir and i hope you enjoy it and take better care of it than the original owner, i assume from reading your posts that you will, the fact that anyone without a background in gunsmithing or comp shooting would notice a glass bed is amazing enough to me, my question is tho, how did he bed it? was it a store bought glass bed kit with the poly  acraglass,   or was it homemade with like gauze gun oil and clay or did he do it with lipstick and nail polish (i have seen that and yes it works) i would love to know...


Acraglas - and since Brownell's is still making it I can't imagine it's that much of a dying art.  And while I can't claim to have a background in competitive shooting, I was taught to shoot (and to care for my guns) by someone who did.  More to follow via PM since we're straying a bit off topic, though I may try to find (or take) a picture of it.  It's not terribly Steampunk per se, but it would definitely fit in with a "lost world" scenario.

Ah!  I thought I had a picture!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 01:54:45 pm by JosephR » Logged
maze.rodent
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« Reply #111 on: July 20, 2009, 11:09:14 pm »

i've got no problem with the conversation drifting, but isn't the Remington 725 a "modern" gun?
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Sir Nikolas Vendigroth
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« Reply #112 on: July 20, 2009, 11:13:51 pm »

Maybe so, but I see no flames, or even moderate disagreement.  Cool 's why I love this forum, everyone's so nice.
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JosephR
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« Reply #113 on: July 20, 2009, 11:14:44 pm »

i've got no problem with the conversation drifting, but isn't the Remington 725 a "modern" gun?
Isn't Steampunk "modern" by definition?  And as I said:
Quote
It's not terribly Steampunk per se, but it would definitely fit in with a "lost world" scenario.
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Captain Lyerly
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« Reply #114 on: July 21, 2009, 02:53:23 am »

But to get things back on track...

http://lh3.google.com/abramsv/R_xagfXRo4I/AAAAAAAAN1A/4pAhVh9bqJQ/s1600-h/314659014_a42f843d0c_b.jpg

10 barreled pin-fire pistol, France, 19th c.

http://lh6.google.com/abramsv/R_xSRPXRotI/AAAAAAAANzo/LT6LnKTcoBw/s1600-h/key%20flintlock%20hermann%20historica-01.jpg

Key flintlock, 18th c.

Cheers


Chas.
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Captain Reech
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« Reply #115 on: July 22, 2009, 06:39:24 pm »

I like the key, makes it so much easier to 'Shoot the lock off' like they do in the movies. (Incidently, it's pretty impossible unless you use a bazooka, I've tried!)
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JosephR
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« Reply #116 on: July 22, 2009, 10:25:10 pm »

I'm reasonably certain that shooting the lock off is not what the key pistol is for...
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JosephR
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« Reply #117 on: July 22, 2009, 10:28:03 pm »

The 10-barreled pistol, OTOH, looks decidedly awkward.  Impossible to pocket and difficult to get off additional shots.
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maze.rodent
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« Reply #118 on: July 24, 2009, 03:24:11 am »

i've got no problem with the conversation drifting, but isn't the Remington 725 a "modern" gun?

Isn't Steampunk "modern" by definition?  And as I said:
Quote
It's not terribly Steampunk per se, but it would definitely fit in with a "lost world" scenario.



Quote
Banned discussion includes: Real weapons created after 1914 (the start of WWI).



and, following the key gun:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Captain Lyerly
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« Reply #119 on: July 24, 2009, 04:04:18 am »

Quote
his XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below.
     

 Sad

Chas.
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JosephR
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« Reply #120 on: July 24, 2009, 04:12:05 am »

Banned discussion includes: Real weapons created after 1914 (the start of WWI).

Right you are.  Sorry.
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Tailor OTearney
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« Reply #121 on: July 31, 2009, 06:57:12 pm »

I have a modest collection of both long arms and pistols...many fall below the 1914 cut-off date for discussion, many don't.  I may post a few of them at another date.

I read through the thread with interest...there are a LOT of neat-looking pistols out there.  My favourite of the moment in terms of "Steampunk without being Steampunk" is this one:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
1893 Bittner, made by....Gustav Bittner of (I belive) Bohemia.  7.7mm, 6-shot, magazine fed repeating pistol.  I would really love to get my hands on a real one, but the prices I have seen when one of them becomes available is astounding ($17,500).  So...I plan on trying to build one.  Non-firing, of course....I'm not a gunsmith, after all!   Wink  My lady needs a sidearm, I need to build this pistol....match of convenience, it seems!
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JosephR
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« Reply #122 on: July 31, 2009, 07:14:49 pm »

I have a modest collection of both long arms and pistols...many fall below the 1914 cut-off date for discussion, many don't.  I may post a few of them at another date.

I read through the thread with interest...there are a LOT of neat-looking pistols out there.  My favourite of the moment in terms of "Steampunk without being Steampunk" is this one:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
1893 Bittner, made by....Gustav Bittner of (I belive) Bohemia.  7.7mm, 6-shot, magazine fed repeating pistol.  I would really love to get my hands on a real one, but the prices I have seen when one of them becomes available is astounding ($17,500).  So...I plan on trying to build one.  Non-firing, of course....I'm not a gunsmith, after all!   Wink  My lady needs a sidearm, I need to build this pistol....match of convenience, it seems!


Now THAT is seriously cool - good luck on the build!
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Utini420
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« Reply #123 on: July 31, 2009, 07:39:34 pm »

man, that gun must have been in FireFly somewhere...
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Tailor OTearney
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« Reply #124 on: July 31, 2009, 09:31:22 pm »

It is indeed a cool gun....and thanks for the good luck.  I know I will probably need it!   Grin

I don't know that it was in Firefly....but it really should have been.  I have to wonder if the designers of Mal's gun had that stuck in their subconcious somewhere. 
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