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Author Topic: My Theory On The Anatomy Of A Air Jellyfish....type thing  (Read 11643 times)
Angus A Fitziron
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« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2009, 10:59:34 am »

Careful Arvis, the mods might think we're having a debate...  Grin.  Thanks for the info about gheko's - I was genuinely ignorant on that one. I do agree the difficulty this creature would have in maintaining sufficient humidity in the air, maybe they would need to inhabit particularly cloudy areas of the sky? The skin would have to be very highly developed to prevent excessive moisture loss and yet control surface humidity. The difference between a wet zeppelin and a dry one amounted to several tons and hence floatation complications. I do like this thread ~ just considered, to get a reasonable lift / mass ratio, these things must have been enormous! How big guys? 100 foot across, 200 foot? Bigger? Hey, we have a monster!

However the skin of the jellyfish is probably not made of aluminum and iron and is not flammable to begin with. (as was the case with "Hindenburg") So the comparison to a Graf Zeppelin is not entirely fair. Man with all his technology has yet to create anything that has not been accomplished by nature first and certainly not as fine a design.
OK, I'm no expert and there are lots of theories about Hindenberg. It did not have an aluminium skin but the skeleton was made of aluminium alloy. The skin was cotton I believe, doped with a highly inflamable coating. Also, the hydrogen ballonets were double skinned cotton, unusual amongst hydrogen airships which usually used goldbeaters skin (the lining of oxen stomachs I think), so Hindenberg was a departure from the norm, probably due to the political and commercial situation in late '30s Germany. I agree even dry jellyfish skin is unlikely to be flammable, but if the creature vents hydrogen (in order to dive and secure prey perhaps?) then a spark at the wrong time involves a hurriedly yet dramatic exit for another Air JellyFish! Oh the imagery is just too much - exploding giant flying jellyfish  Grin Grin Grin
As for nature beating man to create new wonders, try as I might I can't think of an animal that can float in the air like an airship (discounting dragons and Douglas Adams' Blue Whale).
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Arvis
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« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2009, 05:34:19 pm »

 A debate...? A DEBATE!? HORSE HOCKEY!!! WHY I HAVN'T AN ARgu...mentive bone...   ...in my body.  Roll Eyes

 I chose hydrogen mainly because it has the greatest lift and most abundant of all the lighter than air gasses. But now it seems the deb... er um. Conversation has moved into "man's superiority over nature". Saying that nature did not come up with an airship is like asking the question "Why are there no animals with wheels instead of legs?". The answer to the "wheels" question because wheels are inferior to legs. In nature there are no long smooth paved roads. It's all hilly and rocky riddled with all manor of obstacles. Your car can run faster than you... but can it climb a tree?
 Same with an airship. Nature did not need one so it dose not exist..... however....nature has built something similar and it's been around for quite some time. Let's look at the airship for a moment. It has an envelope that contains a gas lighter than the atmosphere around it. It can control this gas to adjust it's buoyancy and consequentially it's altitude. It has motors that control direction and speed.
 There is a creature in nature that does everything mentioned in the airship description.

 And it is the chambered nautilus.

 If this weren't enough, the nautilus uses jet propulsion to get around. Even our submarines still use the screw. (I'll bet the Navy would LOVE to have a jet propulsion system this efficient, the propellers "sing" and give away a subs position) Couple that up with the twenty year life span and self reliance (doesn't require an army of technicians to keep it alive) and I think it waaaaay out preforms anything man could devise given the environment it lives in. Besides... when a nautilus dies at sea, it doesn't leave behind a radioactive mess to poison it's environment.

 You can arg...er.. say that this is not an air ship but a submarine but what is a submarine? A submarine dose for the ocean what the airship does for the sky.
 If indeed there was a ready food supply and dependable shelter (clouds are unreliable at best) then there would probably be something similar to a flying jellyfish (or nautilus?) terrorizing us back into out pathetic cave and to the drawing boards where we devise our weapons to shoot them down.


Oh I LOVE this thread!  Grin
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Atterton
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« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2009, 06:07:12 pm »

People always talk about air krakens as squids. I think if there are creatures living in the sky they are more likely to be related to jellyfish. The original ones in Terror of the Skies by Conan Doyle were also jellyfish. I´m not sure what they would actually eat though.
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Arvis
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« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2009, 06:48:38 pm »

People always talk about air krakens as squids. I think if there are creatures living in the sky they are more likely to be related to jellyfish.

 On this I agree. However "related" may not be the right word. Similar looking may be more appropriate. Just as birds are no more related to bats than they are flying insects. They have all achieved true flight and overall build similarities but all have vast differences as well.
 My thoughts on the flying jellyfishes existence are that they are not indigenous to our world. Perhaps some "mad genius"(sounds more understanding and complimentary than "evil scientist") opened some sort of transdimentional vortex,warp tunnel, wormhole what have you and let it into our world. Maybe it's spore arrived purely by chance by means of comet. Or even even visited upon us by the "old gods" as punishment for merely existing.
 What ever the reason of it's being here I can't see it as having evolved on our world.
It could only be an alien.

Hmmmm..... Does Lord Cockswain have all of his trophies accounted for?

 

P.S. Now that I think about it in the Sega Genesis video game "Ecco the Dolphin and the Tides of time" the flying Kraken in that game is a giant jellyfish.
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akumabito
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« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2009, 07:21:13 pm »

Since in the air weight is paramount, the gas bladder would have to be very thin.. I'm thinking this would make it very susceptible to being damaged by atmospheric conditions. Gusts of wind, heavy rainfall or hail could potentially damage the gas bladder, and without quick fix, the sky jellyfish would soon come tumbling down..

I was just reading up on aerogel the other day. I think it would be interesting if there were a species that could produce a similar material naturally - with the cavities filled with a lifting gas, probably methane. The sky-jellyfish would then perhaps be more akin to a rigid airship than a blimp Wink


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Angus A Fitziron
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« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2009, 08:01:52 pm »

And it is the chambered nautilus.

Touché - you win that point of the argume discussion! Indeed some jellyfish that we have round these coasts certainly appear to be segmented into separate chambers.

 
People always talk about air krakens as squids. I think if there are creatures living in the sky they are more likely to be related to jellyfish.


 On this I agree. However "related" may not be the right word. Similar looking may be more appropriate. Just as birds are no more related to bats than they are flying insects. They have all achieved true flight and overall build similarities but all have vast differences as well.
 My thoughts on the flying jellyfishes existence are that they are not indigenous to our world. Perhaps some "mad genius"(sounds more understanding and complimentary than "evil scientist") opened some sort of transdimentional vortex,warp tunnel, wormhole what have you and let it into our world. Maybe it's spore arrived purely by chance by means of comet. Or even even visited upon us by the "old gods" as punishment for merely existing.
 What ever the reason of it's being here I can't see it as having evolved on our world.
It could only be an alien.

Of course, evolution is still only a theory....

Since in the air weight is paramount, the gas bladder would have to be very thin.. I'm thinking this would make it very susceptible to being damaged by atmospheric conditions. Gusts of wind, heavy rainfall or hail could potentially damage the gas bladder, and without quick fix, the sky jellyfish would soon come tumbling down..

I was just reading up on aerogel the other day. I think it would be interesting if there were a species that could produce a similar material naturally - with the cavities filled with a lifting gas, probably methane. The sky-jellyfish would then perhaps be more akin to a rigid airship than a blimp Wink


I believe Aku has shares in an Aerogel company!
The best material found in rigid airships for containing hydrogen was "gold-beater's skin" which was produced from the lining of oxen stomachs. A naturally occuring material that already exists, it is entirely reasonable to assume that our Air JellyFish is equipped with hydrogen tight bladders.  Smiley
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akumabito
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« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2009, 08:05:21 pm »

I believe Aku has shares in an Aerogel company!

It's funky stuff! Grin
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Angus A Fitziron
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« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2009, 08:06:09 pm »

Shareholder - def!
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Dr cornelius quack
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« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2009, 08:11:31 pm »

 Man with all his technology has yet to create anything that has not been accomplished by nature first and certainly not as fine a design.

Pish tosh! pshaw! piddle poo! and other scornful rejoinders!

What about those mittens with a piece of string that goes up one sleeve and down the other?

Dr. Q.
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Atterton
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« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2009, 08:15:01 pm »

No, evolution is not *just* a theory. Sheesh.

If you look up the creature known as glass squid, you can see what an air kraken might look like. Of course that is a squid, not a jellyfish.
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David Godfrey Esq.
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« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2009, 08:35:31 pm »

 Man with all his technology has yet to create anything that has not been accomplished by nature first and certainly not as fine a design.

Well I wouldn't want a single hole for breeding, and excreting through, but lots of animals seem to manage just fine. The vertebrate eye is wired the vertebrate eye back-to-front. There are lots more examples of bodged engineering- Humans are one of the worst designs for a biped I can think of.

Quote
Of course, evolution is still only a theory....

I do not think that word means what you think it means. "Theory" is as good as a model for explaining observations gets. Gravity is "just a theory". The Standard Model in physics is "just a theory".
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Angus A Fitziron
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« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2009, 08:46:01 pm »

No David, I do know what a theory is and I was using it just a bit playfully! Look at the tone of the thread  Smiley
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David Godfrey Esq.
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« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2009, 08:53:16 pm »

No David, I do know what a theory is and I was using it just a bit playfully! Look at the tone of the thread  Smiley

OK No harm done. It just happens to be one of my "hot buttons". Its quite hard not to flip into evangelical palaeontologist mode.
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Angus A Fitziron
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« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2009, 09:04:46 pm »

No David, I do know what a theory is and I was using it just a bit playfully! Look at the tone of the thread  Smiley

OK No harm done. It just happens to be one of my "hot buttons". Its quite hard not to flip into evangelical palaeontologist mode.
nuff said
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Arvis
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« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2009, 10:04:50 pm »

No David, I do know what a theory is and I was using it just a bit playfully!

Haha! That line just reminds me of a certain "Stanley Kubrick" movie.
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Angus A Fitziron
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« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2009, 10:46:38 pm »

Any similarity was entirely intentional!   Grin
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Arvis
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« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2009, 10:52:53 pm »

 Well this thread has been a heck of a lot of fun. (I've about run out of flying jellyfish ideas)
Maybe he's related to the flying spaghetti monster....?

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Atterton
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« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2009, 10:57:43 pm »

We havent even talked about bioluminescence yet, and how the sky jellyfish uses that.
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Arvis
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« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2009, 11:07:58 pm »

We havent even talked about bioluminescence yet, and how the sky jellyfish uses that.

Is this where they glow in the dark? cause I don't know squat about that.  Tongue

The closest I've come to that is the phosphorus footprints I've left on the beach.(and swam with) from what I understand it's tiny jellyfishies.

 Hmmmm.... Flying jellyfish with phosphorus defense weapon....
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Atterton
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« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2009, 11:11:02 pm »

Not just glow in the dark, they actually produce the light themselves. Like fireflies do. Why do you think people report seeing strange lights in the sky...
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Judicator
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« Reply #45 on: April 30, 2009, 01:32:58 am »

Maybe they live high in the altitude near mountains and extremely cloudy areas where they can stay hidden as well as mostiored,i think that they would be able to go into the ocean disguised as a jellyfish and eat that way......
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Silas P. Morgan
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« Reply #46 on: April 30, 2009, 08:07:41 am »

This has been really bothering me for the last few days....
Quote
im not posting anything more over the subject If its going to turn into a debate,i was simply postingMY PERSONAL THEORY,and the last forum posting website i went to criticized everything you said and turned everything into a stinkin debate,thats why i leave most forum sites.
What bothers me, is that an idea was posted, and we also wanted to play with it ....
If I posted that this is how Air Paraná work, and this is the only way they work.... well, the thread would die kind of quickly....
But Air Jellyfish sounds like fun, and that is why everyone is playing.....

Maybe I missed a post, and I have no intention of angering/peeving/driving anyone away. because I post a contrary opinion ...But posting an idea/concept, and leaving it open, creates new post and other people ideas, and it's kind of fun (take the parts that work for you, discard what doesn't) Forums just work like that....




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Arvis
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« Reply #47 on: April 30, 2009, 03:41:30 pm »

This has been really bothering me for the last few days....
Quote
im not posting anything more over the subject If its going to turn into a debate,i was simply postingMY PERSONAL THEORY,and the last forum posting website i went to criticized everything you said and turned everything into a stinkin debate,thats why i leave most forum sites.
What bothers me, is that an idea was posted, and we also wanted to play with it ....
If I posted that this is how Air Paraná work, and this is the only way they work.... well, the thread would die kind of quickly....
But Air Jellyfish sounds like fun, and that is why everyone is playing.....

Maybe I missed a post, and I have no intention of angering/peeving/driving anyone away. because I post a contrary opinion ...But posting an idea/concept, and leaving it open, creates new post and other people ideas, and it's kind of fun (take the parts that work for you, discard what doesn't) Forums just work like that....





 It's all good. This issue was addressed a few days ago.


I dont think i can take it any further,it all came to me in a dream basically,though i worked out the kinks myself when i was awake....
Awww... I was just getting into this one. Sorry if I took your idea and ran. When you asked me to look at this thread last night I thought you were looking for ideas/suggestions.
 Didn't mean to step on any toes. 

 Sincerest of apologies.  Embarrassed

Arvis
No,no its really all my fault,i over reacted,I tend to do that alot,any way if you wanna modify it thats fine I just thought you were trying to change it.......

I may post later on this subject. (as it is my work week has begun and have no time to dedicate to posting)


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tsjaikdus
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« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2009, 03:52:01 pm »

Anyone mentioned festo air jelly yet?

http://www.festo.com/cms/de_de/5890_6299.htm#id_6040

they have flying penguins too ->

http://www.festo.com/cms/de_de/11514_11562.htm#id_11517
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Arvis
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Never underestimate the power of a hairless monkey


« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2009, 04:01:11 pm »

 WHOAH!!!  Shocked

ME LIKEI!!!

Love that jelly and the penguin is beautiful!  Cheesy
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