The Living Steampunk World

[Johnny Payphone]

In the last few years the rising popularity of steampunk has given us benefits and disadvantages.  The greatest benefit for me was that it allowed me to connect to other like-minded people, who often had been steampunks all along and just didn't know it.  The largest disadvantage for me has been the overwhelming impression that steampunk is imaginary.  So here was this wonderful community, young and old, going back a hundred years, and all of us were deeply involved in doing something (be it building, sewing or whatever) and living our lives fully in the state that we wish the world was in regardless of its actual disappointment... and along comes a crush of people who basically pretend they are doing the same.  Wonderful, imaginative people who should be wearing that waistcoat all the time, not just at the Holiday Inn at some convention.  Add to this the mainstream media's interest only in what sort of products can be produced by this community- they are unable to imagine anyone doing anything for any reason other than profit.  That's just the way the world is, at this moment, and steampunk is a backlash against it.  A reclaiming of what is real- something as simple as sitting in a chair that was made by a real person, rather than the faceless child laborer across the ocean, his facelessness being exactly what allows us to exploit him.

As such the genre of speculative fiction that accompanies steampunk isn't very interesting to me.  It seems like there's a horrible curse on steampunk movies, that they will be beautifully dressed and absolutely horrible to watch.  Likewise with the books- if there's a tolerable steampunk novel, please let me know about it, I'd love to read one- and I'm a little too old to be reading comic books, and so I will leave the Textual and Aura-Ocular sections of this forum and everything in them to the fans of steampunk.

A steampunk might take a photograph using an archaic method of photography.  This supports those who study arts that would otherwise be lost to us- and we all know that new isn't better, that there are subtleties (for example) of film that digital can only imitate.  Therefore a fan of steampunk would simply take a digital picture and use a filter to make it look archaic.  No art, no effort, no historical connection, no juju.  It is the lifestyle equivalent of playing a skateboarding video game rather than getting out there and skinning some knees.

A steampunk might craft the items in his life so that they have more substance and style and can replace the ugly plastic tools that most products have become.  A fan of steampunk would make something (usually out of plastic), spray paint it copper, and pretend that it does what the steampunk's item does.

Incredibly I've heard two, albeit rare, sentiments that shocked me.  The first was "I can't wait until steampunk items are mass produced so I can buy them cheaply rather than having to purchase them from individual craftsmen".  This odd statement- I think it was a response to the NYTimes article- seems to have missed the entire point.  The second was "people who think you have to make to matter are douches".  This seems to suggest that people who do absolutely nothing with their life- create nothing, add nothing, are nothing- are somehow acceptable members of the community.  I disagree- it is they who are the douches- and in fact I think one of the worst curses the world suffers under is the way you can, almost without noticing, waste your entire life in a rut without ever improving the world, touching lives, or leaving a lasting impression.  It's easy- just wake up, go to work, come home, turn on the TV, go to bed.  Repeat for 80 years.

Now, I believe that inside every fan of steampunk there is an actual steampunk itching to break out.  Get out there and skin some knees!  But it's not always apparent how to get started.  This forum is a great source of inspiration and the knowledge that there are other people out there who get the same funny looks as you do.  For me to travel around the world up to my elbows in grease and learning from older folks who've been into this aesthetic for 50 years and then all of the sudden come face to face with a crowd who think that it came from make-believe, instead of being a little flame that has been preserved with incredible care since the days when things were real, was quite a shock.  I haven't always been polite in dealing with that shock.  I have nothing but contempt for a person who lives their life the way they want ONLY in imagination, and in carefully controlled situations where they have permission to be themselves.

And so, with various compliments from those who enjoy my posts, I realized that I could help people be real-life steampunks rather than pretend steampunks.  I compiled all of my posts into a blog:

www.johnnypayphone.net/blog.php

...and made an accompanying Google map with an emphasis on real-life, immersive experiences with things steampunk.  The idea is not just to post things to look at but things to do.

Now, there are a few Frappr maps around, but that doesn't help- (why would I want to know where other steampunks are?  Am I going to knock on their doors?), and the Steampunk Tourist map at

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=105924037117963979818.00044f69761ab67554192&ll=47.338823,11.162109&spn=28.628196,56.25&z=4&source=embed

unfortunately includes imaginary places from steampunk fiction, and why would I want to visit someplace that doesn't exist? Not to mention the fact that the unpleasant wiki interface makes me unable to enjoy or visit this otherwise pithy site.  I would, however, take a look at The Steampunk Tourist to see if anyone has posted anything of interest near my destination.

If my sentiments ring a bell for you, and you are a person who is out there doing things and involved in projects, or visiting sites of interest, you are welcome to join me to post to the blog or the map.  You can send me a personal message with an example of what you'd like to add.  I'd love to have a few more collaborators but honestly I don't expect that many.  The fact is that the more immersed someone is in a steampunk world, the less likely they are to use the Internet.  I'm sort of swimming upriver to try and convince anyone in an online forum to reach over, turn off the computer, and get to work building their dreams.  But, because I myself have not quite cast off the Internet entirely (I believe it does have some uses, though not much), I'm stuck halfway between the real, living, steampunk world and the fake, plastic, impersonal world that most people live in.  Isn't that ironic, that a world people believe is imaginary is where all the realness is, and the world people accept as reality is mostly fake?  I guess that's why steampunk exists, as an alternative to the lies we are fed.

[General Ninian Banks]

Bravo! You are quite the inspiration sir! 

[hatchleader]

mmmmm... mixed emotions from my end (i can't help but think the phrase.... tin open, worms everywhere!... comes to mind). I'm into steampunk for the engineering not the dressing up, and you wouldn't pick me out of a crowd and say 'He's steampunk!'. but at the same time i have little interest in manufacturing a prop when i could rack my brains for 40 or 50 hours and come up with a mechanized design that actually works.

So at what level of steampunk am i? I've always wondered if i was actually steampunk or am i just someone with a love of airships and who happens to design mechanized things?

MMMMM food for thought!

*Oh and i can see this becoming a hotly debated topic*

[Flynn MacCallister]

*Oh and i can see this becoming a hotly debated topic*

Again.

Dear everyone:

Always remember the waffles.

Thankyou.

[TimeTinker]

Well you seem to have pre-empted some of my own thoughts and musings that I had been planning to write up.  Over the last week or so I have been chatting to a lot of steampunks in several contexts - a science fiction convention where I was a guest, a goth music event, a steam pumping station and a victorian botanical garden.  I have been looking for a coherent theme to what people see in this and so have the following to suggest.

1. Steampunk as I appreciate it is actually fundamentally about community.  Humans are social creatures who like to know where they fit in.  This is a vibrant and active community and it is great to share our interest with others.  With this in mind I feel it is a mistake to try and homogenise the community either through mass production or equally restricting what people consider to be relevant. This forum is an excellent example of community since it affords opportunity for people on different continents to share with one another. The internet should be applauded for that reason and just as the Victorians pioneered postal services it is equally valid. Anyone who visits this community and posts or posts on a blog etc is accepting of this by default. To deny it is hypocritical or self delusional since the alternative is simply to not turn on the computer and just go do your own thing.

2. Creativity - 99% of the steampunks I have chatted to are creative.  They are not however all creative in the same way. Some make the most wonderful gadgets and devices, others create clothes. Some weave the written word whilst others generate soundscapes for us.  Some create a social ambience and sense of wellbeing.  All of these things contribute to our community. It would be wrong to assume that one person's creativity is of greater value than anyone elses - all creativity should be celebrated.

There is a sub text to these two areas. Humans are often fundamentally acquisitive and in belonging to a community like to advertise that fact.  If your creativity does not include the skills necessary to produce in one particular area what is wrong with acquiring from someone who has those skills?  Mass production can be liberating and empowering. The Victorians realised this and pioneered it. Mass production does not have to mean homogenisation however since creativity can be employed in combining, modifying and accessorising.

(A couple of minor points - I would argue that some of the artists we have present in this community who modify and manipulate digital images are truly creative individuals and their work has just as much juju as anyone playing with film. I personally dislike brass painted plastic as much as you do but accept that some people need to start down the path from somewhere. We don't all spring as ready formed and skilled craftspeople.)

3. I agree wholeheartedly that steampunk is aspirational.  One of my main aspirations is actually for society to redevelop respect for one another and to encourage polite behaviour.  Speaking to your fellow politely, having rules of conduct which allow people to feel safe, considered and respected are essential to my way of thinking.  Even disagreements and arguments can be conducted politely and with decorum.  I have served as a soldier at home and abroad and as a worker in prisons and some of the most deprived parts of modern British society. I have walked on dark roads as they say. I really do feel for people who struggle in this world but despise with a passion the bully who denegrates or preys upon others. If we conduct ourselves well we set an example for others.  If as a community we conduct ourselves well we set an example for the rest of humanity and as a welcome side effect create a place where we feel comfortable with each other.

4. We are in a time where the state of the world worries many people. I do not want to get drawn on individual environmental topics since I think there is an awful lot of misrepresentation, economic interest and down right lies on a lot of it. However I will hold up the fact that when a victorian made something it was made to last. Quality mattered and we should take a leaf from that book. Forget recycling if you can keep reusing as is!

5. That is really my main point - quality.  We need to encourage people to be the best that they can. Steampunk should be about quality in what we do and who we are which is a big part of what you are saying I think.  We can do this by encouragement and support rather than by denegration however.  Repainted toy pistols leave me cold for example. On a hand built wood and brass raygun I can admire the workmanship and quality even if it has no real function. When I find an item which is beautifully made and has a function too - well then my admiration is allowed full head of steam. All are part of the broad pallette which is steampunk however. We can improve things by encouraging people to aspire towards better works.  This holds true in all areas of the genre not just physical making but also in writing, art, music, costume even culinary endeavours etc.  If you are not impressed with the speculative fiction then perhaps it is simply not of a high enough quality for you.  May I suggest a true steampunk would then set out to write it rather than just condemn it.

I have one or two pet hates about this forum.  The main one is people who post one line messages which are critical of a previous post. e.g. "You spelt that wrong", or "actually that was March 1869, not 1868" - you know the sort of thing I mean? That is not being supportive or encouraging no matter what the respondent might claim. That is showing off their own ego.  Responses should be reasoned and polite.  You can point out errors but posting a few sentences with polite comment shows respect. I hope that by posting long missives like these I demonstrate that I am actually reading what someone else has written and thinking about it. I may disagree but I am affording a level of respect and consideration in that process

PLEASE do not think this is a counter argument.  I actually agree with much of what was written.  I just feel that we should be a vibrant and living community that embraces all aspects of what we have here rather than trying to restrict and control things since in the restriction we run the risk of destroying some of the creativity which makes this such a special world. I see things going on that I personally think are comically poor but respect the individuals right to try. I have long tried to live by the code that rather than tell someone their work is shite I like to suggest to them "perhaps you might like to try this..." and hope they will do better next time.

As for the dressing up - my waistcoats are regular daily wear but that doesn't stop me wearing much more for outings etc. When a group of us are out together and dressed appropriately it generates a sense of belonging and identity.  It's also a darned good way of being able to recognise people you have never met before.   Making things - well I was lucky I started forgework at the age of 11 and I make props professionally at the sime time I also make accurate historical replicas for museums. I moderate the quality and functionality of a piece to suit the end use it will be put to and how much the client is willing to pay for it. I do enjoy the freedom to be creative though with some of the steampunk things I make I just wish I had more time to do it but I actually enjoy my professional work too so it's not a case of bemoaning a lack of time because of work just wishing there were 26 hours in a day and 8 days in a week.

My conclusions:

1. Community
2. Quality
3. Respect

John

[David Godfrey Esq.]

I think I largely agree, but would also like to repeat the point that for many of us covering something in wood-effect plastic or painting it to look like brass is the best we can do because we aren't skilled craftspeople. My sewing skills don't go much further than replacing buttons, and I have no real flair for wood or metalwork. If I could build a case for an LCD from scratch I would. The results may not be to your taste (I'm not always happy with how things turn out either), but we do what we can with the skills we have and in the process learn and develop them. Maybe one day I'll produce something as good as some of the really talented people on here, but its going to be a long while yet and I think as long as I have fun getting there that's all that matters.

[HAC]

MODERATOR COMMENT ON!

Ok folks.. we've been down this road before, and it got ugly.. I've had this thread reported a few times already..
So far I can see no great problems here, but if this thread deteriorates into a quagmire of angst and such, as before, well..

In the Meantime... Carry On..

MODERATOR COMMENT OFF!

[Sir Ninian Marsh]

I think I largely agree, but would also like to repeat the point that for many of us covering something in wood-effect plastic or painting it to look like brass is the best we can do because we aren't skilled craftspeople.

Agreed. Prop making or kit bashing is an art form in itself. Been able to take mass produced plastic and turn it into something more beautiful and inspiring should be applauded not looked down upon.

[HAC]

I would tend to agree With the TimeTinker's position slightly more than Mr. Payphones (which still does, I feel, have  validity) To my view Steampunk is more an ethos and community of like-minded folks, than anything else.
As an example, I don't dress up, nor do I make things, (perhaps one day I will, who knows?) Yet I would hope that I would still be considered SP by the others here.
As far as the comments on quality, not everyone has yet acquired the skills to be a master. What matters is trying, doing one's best, and then accepting constructive criticism and suggestions with grace (as long as those comments are offered in a spirit of well meaning and helpfulness, of course). The way to wisdom begins with listening.

Cheers
Harold

[TimeTinker]

I have just reread my post to see if I had said anything offensive or against the board's rules since I do try my utmost to live by my code of respectful conduct and am always reticent when attracting a moderator's notice.  Thanks for posting as an individual too Harold BTW.

I noted that I did not stress creativity in my summation points.  I hope people took that as read from the start of the post since it is the key to what we do and why we do it and I assume others simply understand that without the need for it to be emphasised. David and Sir Ninian I agree entirely with your comments, I hope that is clear.  It is the expression of that creativity and a determination to achieve which is paramount. 

As an aside we all feel frustration at a project not taking shape the way we would like it to. That is part of the creative process.

[HAC]

I have just reread my post to see if I had said anything offensive or against the board's rules since I do try my utmost to live by my code of respectful conduct and am always reticent when attracting a moderator's notice.  Thanks for posting as an individual too Harold BTW.

I noted that I did not stress creativity in my summation points.  I hope people took that as read from the start of the post since it is the key to what we do and why we do it and I assume others simply understand that without the need for it to be emphasised. David and Sir Ninian I agree entirely with your comments, I hope that is clear.  It is the expression of that creativity and a determination to achieve which is paramount. 

As an aside we all feel frustration at a project not taking shape the way we would like it to. That is part of the creative process.

MOD VOICE ON!
The Moderator comment was simply a response to a few emailed comments.. The intent was simply to let folks know that this topic can easily degenerate into a quagmire of argument and ansgt, rather than a valid discussion, and that would not be a useful thing. To my mind there was nothing in any of the posts that came close to violating board standards or rules..
MOD VOICE OFF!

As for me, I do not have the skills to create anything that I would be pleased to share or post here in terms of props or costuming stuff.. I do admire those who  build, though, and appreciate the effort that went into those creations. I'll stick to watches and my photo/image collections, and steam power texts, that's my comfort zone for SP "stuff".. (mind you I have worked on and run a steam locomotive, so I suppose that helps..)

Cheers
Harold

[JingleJoe]

MODERATOR COMMENT ON!

Ok folks.. we've been down this road before, and it got ugly..

Can someone give me the jist of what the road in question is? Thats alot of words up there and I've only got about 4 hours of sleep under my belt so I'll be damned if I can hold my attention on it long enough to ... get ... what was I saying? Exactly.

[Pheobsky]

MODERATOR COMMENT ON!

Ok folks.. we've been down this road before, and it got ugly..

Can someone give me the jist of what the road in question is? Thats alot of words up there and I've only got about 4 hours of sleep under my belt so I'll be damned if I can hold my attention on it long enough to ... get ... what was I saying? Exactly.

As far as I can remember it was mainly people getting angry as they felt the view was elitest & denouncing them as steampunks
mod note- please avoid denouncing please ^^

If my sentiments ring a bell for you, and you are a person who is out there doing things and involved in projects, or visiting sites of interest, you are welcome to join me to post to the blog or the map.  You can send me a personal message with an example of what you'd like to add.  I'd love to have a few more collaborators but honestly I don't expect that many.  The fact is that the more immersed someone is in a steampunk world, the less likely they are to use the Internet.  I'm sort of swimming upriver to try and convince anyone in an online forum to reach over, turn off the computer, and get to work building their dreams.  But, because I myself have not quite cast off the Internet entirely (I believe it does have some uses, though not much), I'm stuck halfway between the real, living, steampunk world and the fake, plastic, impersonal world that most people live in.  Isn't that ironic, that a world people believe is imaginary is where all the realness is, and the world people accept as reality is mostly fake?  I guess that's why steampunk exists, as an alternative to the lies we are fed.

Personaly I find this the most interesting part of the post- re. the interaction between steampunk & the internet modernity &c. as my aproach is that they can not be exclusive, rather a blend of the past & present- to have one without the other destroys any validity which steampunk has as a movement. To exist using purely victorian methods etc. is as much escapism as "role playing" The fact that I can play myself a recording on gramaphone, while communicating with someone on the othe side of the world is wonderfull. I can have a device that fits in the palm of my hand & yet can play over a hundred songs- it is magnificent, yet I use my singer which is over 4 times my age & it is a joy- I don't wan't to reject either in their entirety, rather embrace the best of both. In my work we use a TIG welder which is so small I could carry in a bag, yet some of our tools are made by people who died decades before I was born!
It is a bridge between the past and present- a movement that delights in the splendors that mankind have created- rendering the very idea of an anachronism absurd!

--edit--
I realise that I've somewhat inadvertently denounced those who "exist using purely victorian methods" & "role players" -just to clarifie- I have no issue with either, rather I wouldn't see them as activities associated with "real life steampunking" (whatever that may be) as:
• "to exist using purely victorian methods" is deciding to have a victorian life style. &
• "role playing" by its very definition is role playing- not actualy being.

[Flynn MacCallister]

I would tend to agree With the TimeTinker's position slightly more than Mr. Payphones (which still does, I feel, have  validity) To my view Steampunk is more an ethos and community of like-minded folks, than anything else.
As an example, I don't dress up, nor do I make things, (perhaps one day I will, who knows?) Yet I would hope that I would still be considered SP by the others here.
As far as the comments on quality, not everyone has yet acquired the skills to be a master. What matters is trying, doing one's best, and then accepting constructive criticism and suggestions with grace (as long as those comments are offered in a spirit of well meaning and helpfulness, of course). The way to wisdom begins with listening.

Cheers
Harold

Harold, you're more steampunk than most of us, and we all look up to and admire you ^__^

[HAC]

What can I say?        


Thanks, and Cheers

Harold

[Prof. Grendel Footman Esq]

Hi first time I've posted, though I've lurked here for a long time.
and have to say, I don't really agree with much the original poster has said.
alot of it sounds like old online arguments goths would have about what was goth and what wasn't, or punks arguing what was punk and what wasn't.  if it's only hand crafted old world antique style items from back in the day for you, then you're a steampunk if that's what you want to be, if it's an Ipod you painted up and modded to look steamy, or a prop nerf gun modified with copper and brass,
then you're also a steampunk if you want to be. it all depends on the individual, some dress up and focus on it as a fashion, some dress up and roleplay a character, some just make steam powered RC cars and race, some read steampunk novels (and there are a couple good ones, Differance Engine and Fitzgerald's war come to mind), some just make steampunk illustrations and art.  it's all in the eye of the beholder

and how old is too old to read comic books? I'm 29 and have a fairly extensive collection

[The Kernel]

I think I may sum this up by saying the prevailing mood is against elitism in whatever form, and the promotion of mutual respect, acceptance and welcoming our differences against a background of mutually aknowlaged core values.

I hope that didn't sound too pompus............

[TimeTinker]

Is this once again a case of "a stirring of the pot" meets "polite but firm refusal to be antagonised"?  If so I applaud this place once again. 

[dman762000]

This debate has come up on several occasions. Whether tis better to do something or to talk about it. I have but one thing to say on the matter. Shame on you Mr. Payphone. Your post is very inflammatory and extremely elitist. I have been here almost as long as yourself and have seen many people come and go over the years. Some I can't say that I miss some I do, however I believe that everyone who has ever put up a post on this site, and others, has contributed to the steampunk movement. I have heard the phrase "I have always been into this, I just didn't know it had a name" more times than I can count. What that says to me is that these people have spent a life wearing a costume to fit in with the "normal" world, much as myself did. The haven't ever cast their own belt buckles out of brass, (by the way, I was a ratbiker before I came here as well and still dabble in bike building) they haven't ever rebuilt a steam engine, they don't dress in a Victorian or post apocalyptic Victorian fashion, but, then again, how many people have had those opportunities. I know I haven't. I cannot just take off of my life to go work on things with tribals in Africa. I have a family to support. I also cannot dress in an "unusual" manner all the time because of the uniform dress code at my place of work, add to that that it takes time and money that I do not have to build up a wardrobe of suitable clothing and you see that I still have to wear the jeans and t-shirts that I have had for quite some time. People are different, I will admit that there are a fair amount of "fans" as you put it, who come to steampunk as followers of a fad. They usually do not last very long. They come and hang around for a while and then the "next new thing" comes along and they leave. So be it. Even these fad followers are necessary for any subculture to exist. The people you  bemoan for "spray-painting something copper or brass" are also necessary. I mean, how many people actually know how to cast something out of brass? I am betting not many as it is almost a lost skill. The people painting things are good because at least some of them will want more realism enough to learn how to cast brass. For this thing to exist, for us to truly develop a culture out of it then the poets, musicans, movie makers and artists need to exist as well. These are people that you seem to deride as "fans". We need these people, their creations are just as important as the ones that build things out of wood, brass, and leather. A culture is grown from its literature and art, not just the functional items.  The simple fact of the matter is that most people out there are just as steampunk as yourself, they just do not have the knowledge to do the things you do. If I could I would work in a live steam shop as well, however, those jobs are few and far between and I have to earn a living. You basically complain about the people who don't make or do anything but sit here on the forums discussing things all day. Then do someting about it, start a school so that those of us who want to can learn these things, make it a traveling school and I bet you will find there are a lot more people who want to know how to do things than you thought.

[MechanicalMouse]

I've been away for a while; unfortunately I don't have the free time I used to.

However this topic has been discussed before, though it is not a bad thing to discuss it again.

Some people fear the Steampunk movement becoming Elitist, I still feel this will not happen while we stay civil and open minded. For me creativity and DIY is at the very core of steampunk, and we use what we have available both in terms of skills, equipment, time and money.

My first SteamPunk project was modifying a PDA, I used brass and wood. I braised the brass and built the brass frame that way. It was a fun learning experience even if I killed the PDA in the end, but I could only do that because I had the time and resources to do this.

I intend to modify my Nintendo DS, this time I’ll use spray paint and plastic sheeting. Why? Because of a change in resources and it’s the right tools for the job. I’d love to build a brass/wood chassis for the DS, but I don’t have the time and I don’t think it would look as good (given my skill level).

I like the “home grown” feel of steampunk, I love that people can make and sell their wares, I marvel at the contraptions, clothes and lifestyles of my fellow steampunks. But I can fully understand why some people would like to buy a cheap mass produced steampunk item.

Steampunk will most likely hit main stream in one way or another. I’ll be able to pop into ASDA (That’s Wal-Mart UK to Colonies) and buy a gear print tee-shirt. Will it be steampunk? Yes and No. It is just a tee-shirt it is up to the wearer to make it steampunk, either through accessories or demeanour.

Parts of me agree with Mr Payphone. I love the idea of living breathing steampunk, people making things instead of consuming them, a return to the cottage industries of yesteryear. I’d love to move away from this world where soulless objects are mass produced in far away counties, consumed and replaced.

But this costs more either in time or money, and unfortunately a lot of people cannot afford it. It is unfair to degrade the efforts and creations of these people.  If they enjoy it, no doubt people will make more time, save for that special item or learn the skills to do it themselves.

I’m lucky enough to have just enough skill and time to build some things myself. I DIY because it’s cheaper and I enjoy it. I’ve built tables and cupboards but I’d never get a job as a joiner and recently made a brick wall raised bed (the first ¼ had the bricks upside down!).

I dream of a time when I have the time to build and tinker and create the most marvellous mechanical creations (and the world will tremble), but for now I do what I can with the resources I have.

So I sit at my work desk with my waist coat, pocket watch and my mad scientist hair. I use a silver cigarillo case as my wallet and when I can I build things. It may not scream steampunk, but it doesn’t have to. Because I am.

[darkshines]

I think there are three kinds of people within the steampunk community.

There are some who have always lived this way, or at least have done for some time, in some way, and are grateful to find others out there like them.

There are some that have always FELT this way, or at least have done for some time, in some way and are grateful that they are able to "come out", knowing there are others who are the same way.

There are "tourists", who see steampunk and neo-victorianism as a convieniant fashion, who will buy the mass produced lines now emerging, will get bored soon enough and will disappear. I know quite a few people who have recently asked me "oooh, I love your goggles/labcoat/top hat/watch (delete where applicable) where can I buy the same? *face palm* Firstly, my stuff is either hand made, customised or vintage, you can't have the same, although please feel free to try. Secondly that defeats the whole bloody point! I get tired of saying the same thing when asked things like "what should an airship captain wear?", "where can I buy awesome goggles?" or "what books should I read to make me a steampunk?"- my answer is always "use you instinct and do what feels right!". Thats the main point of steampunk for me, innovation. We are all reinventors, creating a past that was never a present, to paraphrase Vernon Lee.

It doesn't matter if we find each other online, or at conventions, or in Ikea, but we are not alone, and if the internet helps us connect, make friendships, exchange ideas and create happy memories, then I am all for it.

End.

[Toji Chiba]

I think 99% of what I believe has already been posted and I wholeheartedly agree with TimeTinkerer on every mentioned level. For me, THIS is what my personal definition of Steampunk is all about.
I found out about steampunk in September 2007 and to this point this forum and the aesthetic and the best known steampunk artists (such as Datamancer, Jake vonSlatt, Molly Porkshanks or AlexCf for example) had already been around for quite some time. Nevertheless, from the moment I fully understood what this is all about I started to find my own place within the Community and I feel very comfortable here as I feel on conventions if there are steampunks around, as I feel when telling someone who is interested about the genre/subculture.
Steampunk as a cultural movement is unlike most subcultures I know or have been part of before. It is much less elitist (especially for the newbies like me) and as polite as I wish the world would be again.
I enjoyed every post in this topic as every page reminds me again why I like being around here.

regards

Toji

[neon_suntan]

Lots of food for thought here, and I can sort-of see Johnny Payphones perspective as well as Timetinker's.

Nevertheless, the intelligent response that this topic has provoked, is one of the reasons I'll never tire of this forum.

[TimeTinker]

Well I was trying to make it clear that I did understand Johnny Payphone's perspective too but that he was in danger of "throwing the baby out with the bath water" as it were.  There is no place for elitism in Steampunk but there is a place for celebration of excellence. These are two different things.  A number of the UK steampunks have had a lot of conversations about the nature of steampunk over the last few weeks (face to face that is) and I have heard some people describe it as neo-victorianism, some as speculative fiction and some as retro-creativity.  I am getting clearer in my own head about how to define it and I need to because I am constantly being asked just what is steampunk as I promote the Asylum.  Attempting to define it here I would say:

"Steampunk is a community of very creative individuals who hold dear some of the ideals of the past; craftsmanship, durability, good manners, individual motivation and a tolerance for eccentricity. It strives to select the very best of the past and take it forwards into a more interesting future."

Comments and constructive criticism are warmly welcomed.

[Gazongola]

Moan moan moan. We could have this dicussion again, or we could just not worry about it.