The Living Steampunk World

[TimeTinker]

Not all of us have had this discussion before and we have moved it on from where it began. People are not moaning but are actually coming together with contructive comment and ideas. It is ironic that I posted in my original response that my pet peeve is people with one line dismissive comments and you go ahead and post one Gazongola.

Bad show sir.

May I suggest you read a thread fully and show people enough respect to actually think for a moment about what they are trying to say before you simply "moan" about it and consign it to the bin.  If it does not interest you then please be polite enough to simply ignore it and let others have their discussion.

John.

[S.Sprocket]

ok I personally feel the mod comments sort of freaked everyone out and we got a little de-railed here.


This is a good thread so far and people are making good points.  So far any conflicting ideas have been met with mutual respect..

Let's keep this going.


Mr. Payphone, long time no see man, good to see ya post, though you and I should discuss the economics of cottage industry in private sometime.

[Captain Brandsson]

As always: The right tool for the right job.

Sometimes that right tool will be a mass-produced, easily-purchased plastic item that has been given the care and attention it was denied at its creation so that it might now serve a grander purpose.

[Captain Brandsson]

Consider anything that could rightly be considered "art".
The cultural impact of art is not merely on the artists nor on the wealthy that can afford to purchase it, but also on those that view and appreciate it and are willing to spend their spare, hard-earned bits of income on prints or reproductions.

Consider, too, that invention is often (not always, but often) intended to bring an innovation to the world that can be shared by many people.

Steampunk owes much to the merger of art and invention, and often expresses both in the grand showman's style of presenting your genius to an astounded world.

[Gazongola]

Not all of us have had this discussion before and we have moved it on from where it began. People are not moaning but are actually coming together with contructive comment and ideas. It is ironic that I posted in my original response that my pet peeve is people with one line dismissive comments and you go ahead and post one Gazongola.

Bad show sir.

May I suggest you read a thread fully and show people enough respect to actually think for a moment about what they are trying to say before you simply "moan" about it and consign it to the bin.  If it does not interest you then please be polite enough to simply ignore it and let others have their discussion.

John.

Oh alright then. I'm sorry. Guess I was just tired, and a little kranky...
I have had my proverbial 'lie down in a dark room' and feel much less so.
(It's this rapid change in weather. Always does be bad, terrible for my skin)

[Titus Wells]

"Steampunk is a community of very creative individuals who hold dear some of the ideals of the past; craftsmanship, durability, good manners, individual motivation and a tolerance for eccentricity. It strives to select the very best of the past and take it forwards into a more interesting future."

Succinctly put sir, you've put some thought into wording that haven't you? 

[TimeTinker]

I can't claim full credit for it.  It all started with a conversation with Ghostfire over Dinner last weekend which went on to include some of the SF fans at Eastercon and then the gothier steampunks at Beyond the Veil.  Monday a bunch of us went to Papplewick where we were asked many times who we were and this made it obvious that we needed a succinct answer.  This weekend at Birmingham we had the same problem.  Add to this the problems I have when talking to businesses etc in sorting out the Asylum and actually explaining what we are about and I found I had a real need for a sort of definition of what Steampunk is.  I know my little offering cannot be all encompassing and definitive but its the best I could come up with in relation to the context I need to use it in.  It was because of this thought process and conversations that I responded to Johnny Payphone's original post - serendipity if you will. I am not seeking to be the arbiter of what is steampunk but I do need a neat answer. Any comments, advice or suggestions therefore are very welcome.

[Gazongola]

I tell you what, I found this video very informative, and though it was pretty spot on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b75vrsoT8qM

[TimeTinker]

That video has been posted a few times. Unfortunately it does not help me when I need to sum up in a sentence or two what steampunk is about for someone who has no idea at all and six minutes of film doesn't really add to it.  The different speakers do seem to cover the same ground that we have covered here too. To be frank what I am looking for is anything that I might have missed which is glaring by its ommission or can be added very succinctly. I am not looking to explain where steampunk comes from but what it means right now so fitting in with the thread's title of the Living Steampunk. Thank you very much for your input and I am sorry if it seems I am being picky. It is not intended but we have got to this point with quite a bit of thought and questioning already. The challenge is to draft a couple of sentences like a beautiful piece of steampunk craftsmanship - the words represent the brass and polished mahogany and the meaning is the actual function.

[Captain Brandsson]

Science fiction through an 1800s/early 1900s filter?

[neon_suntan]

Well I was trying to make it clear that I did understand Johnny Payphone's perspective too but that he was in danger of "throwing the baby out with the bath water" as it were. 

Eek!

No offence intended sir, it was a general point rather than any attempt to cast aspersions.

Having said that I really feel a broad community is a healthy aspect of BG. I'm aware that there are folk out there with very different views on certain emotive topics, but I want  them here as I value their input and perspective. BITD i used to read radical newspapers alongside mainstream conservative broadsheets to get a nice balance of views  

Further to this I have a theory, just a theory, that the diverse age/background range on BG is what has produced the overall decorum of the posts.

[Gazongola]

Hmm, now how do I explain it...

I normally explain first that it is a subculture, like punk is, or goth, or beatnick. I then say it is the technologcal revolution a century early. The repackaging if you will, of today in a less manufactured box.

[TimeTinker]

Neon Suntan, I know you weren't casting aspersions Sir, nor were you even throwing nasturtiums I respect and value your perspective on this community.

I just wanted to reiterate a little the validity of some of Johnny Payphone's post - didn't want it to appear as though we had totally ignored his points - in the interests of fair play you know

[nathe]

"Steampunk is a community of very creative individuals who hold dear some of the ideals of the past; craftsmanship, durability, good manners, individual motivation and a tolerance for eccentricity. It strives to select the very best of the past and take it forwards into a more interesting future."

Comments and constructive criticism are warmly welcomed.

i dont care if you didnt fully come up with it, that has to be the best steampunk definition i have seen.

i'm a very big fan of what i might call 'functional steampunk' as in, i dont have much of an interest in propmaking but i do find functional items with a victorial flair (in design and function, not necesarily aesthetic, but they seem to be connected), and the do-it-yourself aspect is very intriguing and is probably the reason i associate myself with 'steampunk'

[S.Sprocket]

Let's steer this away from trying  to hash out what steampunk is and what it isn't we have many locked posts on this subject.

[TimeTinker]

Begging your pardon Sir. I was not trying to steer it away but the sentiments in my summary were relevant to the discussion at hand. My invitation to comment on it was because and I do have a genuine need to be able to describe steampunk for non steampunks in a short and concise but also positive way and I do value the input of my peers. I also tried very hard to create a definition which did not exclude what people see as steampunk so there was no attempt at saying what steampunk isn't.

Is the discussion at hand therefore "living steampunk" as in what is going on or perhaps "living" as a "steampunk"?

On the subject of art and invention we were staggered to see the amount of effort the Victorians put into decorative features at Papplewick pumping station. Even in the boiler room where no-one but stokers would spend much time the finials of the cast iron pillars were decorated with flowers. Art and invention were combined unashamedly.  Fortunately the volunteers there put in endless hours maintaining and restoring the place.

There are photographs and some video links in the Papplewick Pumping Station thread in Geographical.

[Sgt.Major Thistlewaite]

Ladies, Gents, et al,

What attracts me to Steampunk, and to things Victorian, and to things British, is quality and civility.
I feel that this community embraces a broad spectrum of age and circumstance, and that is a strength. I do enjoy "dressing up" and always have. Financial constraints really have never hindered me, as I have always been able to assemble a credible costume from Thrift Store finds...better, in fact, than buying something "ready made."
I love to do things with my hands, and nothing gives me greater pleasure than to take something old, discarded as "junk" and return it to functionality...even if that function may not be that for which it was originally intended. Nowadays, I've got a little more leeway with $ than once I did, and so my "projects" may be more elaborate.
Two days ago, I made a 600 mile, 16 hour round trip to pick up this car...bought it off of e-Bay, and it's going to need a lot of work, but the quality of the original construction makes it worth doing, and the fact that I will have many hours of blood, sweat, and tears invested in the restoration will make it mine.Additionally, the idea that I'm taking something that's been off the road for the last twenty years and putting it back in working order pleases me on a deep level. It's already got plenty of wood (burl walnut) and I may add more than a little brass as I go along. It's also very,very British...perhaps the epitome of Britishness. I love it, and I've been waiting thirty-six years (since I was 18, and swore that some day I'd own one) to give this "Flying Lady" a kiss. Just to take the picture, I felt compelled to don leather flying helmet,goggles, duster, jodhpurs, and riding boots.*shrug* I wouldn't attempt to define "Steampunk" but I know what I like, and it happily blends in here.



Now I'm not going to put a steam engine in this, and it isn't "period" but the essential elements of quality, hand built English craftsmanship make this something that works for me.

Cheers,
T.E. Thistlewaite

[Celerity]

Question: 

Some folks here are speaking a lot of a "mass production" of "Steampunk".  Where are you seeing this ? Is the aesthetic picking up speed in the UK or something ?  Am I missing out on something here ?

Regional discussions don't exclude me, but they do confuse me.  For you the culture may be "I can't swing a dead cat without hitting a steampunk" and for me that would mean "Oh my god, there is a steampunk within 100 miles of me ? Show me!"

And I fear that the craftsmen here are also losing a bit of perspective. There are moments in life where we are all novice.  My first few projects turned out to be trash, but I got better.

-> Steve

[TimeTinker]

We have had debates about mass production here a couple of times notably a clothing chain in the US and more recently a costume jewellery manufacturer here in the UK.  It does not mean that  production of steampunk products for a wider market is starting to happen.

Mass production is mentioned twice in this thread as far as I can see -I stated that I beleive it to be fundamental to what the Victorian Age was about but that the stuff they mass produced was of a good quality.  Darkshines suggested that some people who just adopt steampunk as a passing fashion will buy mass produced commercial items.  Steampunks often seem to take the mass produced (e.g. nerf guns) and then customise it which I think is a valuable and normal feature - a bit like writing on your plaster cast when you break you leg

The aesthetic is definitely picking up speed across the globe. Western fashions are showing some decidedly steampunk lines for the general market for example.  Who knows where this will end up.

The general response from craftsmen and non craftsmen alike on thsi thread was that there will always be novices who need to be encouraged and supported but that doesn't stop us admiring and aspiring towards excellence.

I hope that makes things a little clearer.

[Dr cornelius quack]

Hurrah for variety!
Hurrah for breadth of interest and different levels of involvement!
Hurrah for experts!
Hurrah for beginners!
Hurrah for the sharing of information!
Hurrah for requesting information!
Hurrah for decoration!
Hurrah for craftsmanship!
Hurrah for dressing up!
Hurrah for not dressing up!
Hurrah for restoring the real thing!
Hurrah for modding some cheap plastic bit of tat!
Hurrah for socio-political commentary!
Hurrah for cups of tea and discussions about cake!
Hurrah for building your own!
Hurrah for admiring stuff that someone else has built!
Hurrah for extravegance!
Hurrah for subtlety!

In short, hurrah for all the things that make steampunk constantly interesting and provocative.
and Yah! Boo! Sucks! and a big smelly poo!! for everything else!

I know what my belly button looks like, so I don't need to keep going back to check.
I also feel no great need to compare it with anyone elses.

Tink, I am aware that you currently have a perfectly good reason for needing a potted version of what steampunk is.
The one you have seems OK to me, as long as we are clear on the fact that it is just a starting point and that the paths that lead from it are as individual as the people involved.

Dr. Q.

[TimeTinker]

Abso-bl##dy-lutely Sir!

I honestly hope that my previous stands on variety and diversity serve to emphasise where I fall on this debate.

If you have any suggestions as to how I can intimate further the variety and wonder of this community I would really appreciate the input but perhaps best pm it lest it be considered thread jacking.

[Johnny Payphone]

steampunk is a backlash against it.  A reclaiming of what is real- something as simple as sitting in a chair that was made by a real person, rather than the faceless child laborer across the ocean, his facelessness being exactly what allows us to exploit him.

I've tried to express many times our loss of connection to the objects around us.  From The Enlightening Bridge Between Art and Work (quoted on All Things Considered and then posted on Boing Boing) comes a far more eloquent expression of this thought than I could ever come up with:

"Two centuries ago, our forebears would have known the precise history and source of almost every one of the limited number of things they ate and owned. They would have been familiar with the pig, the carpenter, the weaver, the loom and the dairymaid. The range of items available for purchase may have grown exponentially since then, but our understanding of their genesis has grown ever more obscure. We are now as imaginatively disconnected from the production and distribution of our goods as we are practically in reach of them, a process of alienation which has stripped us of opportunities for wonder, gratitude and guilt."

[/i]

[darkshines]

Whoa, zombie thread!

[JingleJoe]

You know Mr payphone sometimes you strike me as a bit intolerant or elitist, however I have been thinking and now I agree with practically everything you said in the initial post of this thread and I can really see where you have been coming from.

[BaronPablo]

I know this might be on the edge of forum rules relating to politics (do excuse me if it is and please alert me), but I have always wanted to form some sort of steampunk socio-political movement to represent our interests in the public sphere. I've always wondered, though, if anyone would actually be interested in such a thing in a movement that is and has become largely defined by the aesthetics without much philosophical substance.

Though, if you are, send me a message and maybe we can change/conquer the world