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Author Topic: Victorian and Steampunk Crossdressing  (Read 52341 times)
Camillia du Chine
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****
United States United States


Blithely combining Comestibles and Combustibles


« Reply #125 on: September 03, 2010, 06:43:28 pm »

Jumping in!  Better late than never  Cheesy

To VA (OP) - Fabulous!  Style, looks, and technical skills - what a dream combination.  Bravo/Brava! 

My darling wife, who has very good taste in textiles and Italian shoes, favors more masculine or androgynous clothing.  She will. not. wear. skirts. ever.   I'll wear anything or not!  Wink   Right now she doesn't quite have the right shape for even a kilt, darn it, but looks wonderful in a shirt, vest, coat, and trousers.  She also loves her overalls.  It can be so unfair - when she's down to fighting trim, she has a very girly (though flat chested) figure with a very small waist compared to her hips and HATES it.  Me, I have shoulders broader than my hips and hardly any curve to my waist and I"M the girly one  Cry  I can look like a longshoreman in drag in my dance costumes if not mindful with accessory placement!

I'm remembering an interview I read with Vincent Price (hopefully correctly) where he talked about playing Prince Albert on stage.  He felt he just wasn't getting the manner and presence of P.A. to come across when someone arranged for him to see-touch-try on a coat P.A. had worn from the Victoria & Albert museum collection.  He immediately found what was missing in his carriage - the coat had 17 pounds of stays in it!  Corseting for men to control their 'physique' was a known practice in the past.  Hmmmm....

I'm now visualizing that previous post of the vest/waistcoat with the boning and lacing up the back.  Didn't the lacing lines nicely accentuate the curve of the spine?  Now I'm wanting to create something like that for my DW!
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ReilaBordello
Gunner
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United States United States


Sky Pirate, Gentleman Zombie


« Reply #126 on: September 05, 2010, 04:47:56 am »

this store (while expensive) has a very interesting variety of clothing items sure to inspire. I browse through it quite often when unsure of what to make next. It may or may not help, but even so i recommend taking a look.
http://www.deliciousboutique.com/DBM.html
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Thirteen
Swab

Australia Australia


Studio Serpentine


« Reply #127 on: September 12, 2010, 09:19:37 am »

Great photo and very nice outfit!
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Puck
Gunner
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United States United States


Lord, what fools these mortals be!


« Reply #128 on: September 17, 2010, 05:51:43 pm »

I absolutely adore Victorian menswear.

I can't say I've ever crossplayed Steampunk. The closest thing I've come to that is the Renfield costume I wore to school on Dwight Frye's birthday (nothing quite special, it was only suspenders, trousers, and my little brother's button down shirt) and the Charlie Chaplin costume I made for my impersonation of him.

I was considering going as Sherlock Holmes tho a friend's Halloween party. However, I'd need to find a waistcoat, jacket, and of course, a pipe.  Wink
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skirt2503
Swab

United Kingdom United Kingdom

julesward
« Reply #129 on: January 02, 2013, 06:23:23 pm »

At last!! I thought I was all alone!,
I to love to dress up in Victorian dresses, I just love the fell of the dress and petticoats.
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walking stick
Zeppelin Admiral
******
England England


« Reply #130 on: January 02, 2013, 09:31:42 pm »

As a woman with a long term interest in costume I've noticed some history, corsets worn by men, particularly so as to look good in uniform, have been very wide spread for a long time.  It's only recently that people assume corsets are female only attire. High heels appear to have started off as cavalry boots. a lot of fashions start male and become female later.  I applaud anyone who does a costume/character well regardless of the costumes gender or their own.  Those males who are bearded or otherwise non feminine in the face and wish to do a female costume there are several variations of veiled hat that can obscure some or all of the details of the face whilst being totally appropriate to the Victorian/Edwardian influenced gowns you wish to wear. I'd post sketches but I am chronically inept with computers. 

I've been doing costume for a long time and some of my best costumes have been male.  As I get older and wider a portly steampunk gentleman seems to be an obvious choice as a character I can use for events particularly when I have to wear orthopaedic shoes (Arthritic knees).
 

(the lady(and perhaps sometimes the gentleman) with the unusual) Walking Stick
 
 
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Plutus Sar
Officer
***
United States United States


« Reply #131 on: January 03, 2013, 03:08:01 pm »

Wow, this thread was started in 2009?!?!?!

Everyone looks wonderful, and the amount of talent displayed by those making or modifying their clothing is tremendous! 

I belong to an unfortunate group that would dearly like to crossdress, but the knowledge that I would be the ugliest women ever holds me back, for the sake of the children if nothing else....

Oh, the humanity of it all!

(The level of acceptance and support here is thrilling, and much to be applauded!)
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"The problem is not that I was born in the wrong time, but that I should have been born in a time which has never existed..."
SeVeNeVeS
Immortal
**
England England



« Reply #132 on: January 03, 2013, 04:03:09 pm »

Ok, heres a little thing that happened last year.

I work in the building trade, full of testosterone fueled bigotry.

A chap I knew decided that the life he led was a lie. During the day he was Gary, but at weekends he wore womens clothing feeling comfortable and "normal"

He divorced his wife and set off to Thailand for an operation. Turns out he always felt like a woman trapped in a mans body.

I know this is slightly different from dressing cross-gender, but before he left I and many others shook his hand and truely wished him the best of luck with his new life.

I guess what Im trying to say here is you may be pleasantly surprised how people react and accept things.

~SeVeN~

 
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matrioshka
Deck Hand
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United States United States


« Reply #133 on: January 11, 2013, 04:58:35 am »

Plutus,

Never say never...




Not terribly steamy, more of a gypsy/peasant look. The corset's right for the era, probably the most accurate thing there.
In guy mode, I'm what you would call "sturdy yeoman stock". Think John Bull.
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J. Wilhelm
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Sentisne fortunatum punkus? Veni. Diem meum comple


WWW
« Reply #134 on: January 11, 2013, 05:40:53 am »

That's absolutely fantastic Mr. Ms. Matrioshka!  Cheesy In the Queer Geer section, we have discussed (or rather I have briefly talked), from the perspective of a hetero visitor to that thread, a bit about cross-dressing and also in relation to other cultures.

http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,20391.msg820197.html#msg820197

I had not seen this thread at all since I came into the forum.

Ok, heres a little thing that happened last year.

I work in the building trade, full of testosterone fueled bigotry.

A chap I knew decided that the life he led was a lie. During the day he was Gary, but at weekends he wore womens clothing feeling comfortable and "normal"

He divorced his wife and set off to Thailand for an operation. Turns out he always felt like a woman trapped in a mans body.

I know this is slightly different from dressing cross-gender, but before he left I and many others shook his hand and truely wished him the best of luck with his new life.

I guess what Im trying to say here is you may be pleasantly surprised how people react and accept things.

~SeVeN~

 


Indeed, but I do find that times have changes and progress has occurred since my 1980's high-school days.  I find a lot of open discussion on the topic in other non-English speaking fora. Like the Steampunk Mexico forum.  In that forum, most of the girls tend to be teenagers and tend to have migrated from the Lolita camp.  It seems that by way of the Lolita, and more specifically the Kodona style ("newspaper boy" version of Lolita), a number of  women have effectively expressed themselves in the cross-dressing sense, and in their preference for the gender of a Steampunk persona. I don't expect the men in that forum (mostly  young men migrated from the punk or Goth scenes) to be as accepting of the converse (male to female cross-dressing) perhaps, as I still expect the culture to be very patriarchal. But...

Not related to a testosterone fueled bigoted culture, but being an American citizen raised in Mexico City as a child, I did experience a rather macho, religious and patriarchal culture, at least during the 1970s and 80s.   However, many things have changed over the years, and often I find that progress is tied to subcultures.  All things being equal, I have overheard Mexican university students studying here in Austin many times during the 2000's, and I have been shocked by their topics of conversation (and open frankness) on the subject of homosexuality and such.  Shocked in the sense I never expected them to be so open and accepting from what I recall would be possible in the 1980s (Highschool years for me).  It is not the same as cross-dressing, but the acceptability factor is there for gender and sexuality issues.  Acceptance in one area implies acceptance in another.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 05:59:39 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged

Plutus Sar
Officer
***
United States United States


« Reply #135 on: January 11, 2013, 02:22:34 pm »

But Ms. Matrioshka, you are a lovely lady, and  I find your attire extremely fetching.  In contrast, in feminine dress my visage could be said to curdle milk, give children the colic and adults fits of apoplexy!   Cheesy

Thank you for sharing the photos, you should post them in the Steam Gallery #3.
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Fairley B. Strange
Zeppelin Overlord
*******
Australia Australia


Relax, I've done much dumber things and survived..


WWW
« Reply #136 on: January 11, 2013, 03:49:45 pm »


Not terribly steamy, more of a gypsy/peasant look. The corset's right for the era, probably the most accurate thing there.
In guy mode, I'm what you would call "sturdy yeoman stock". Think John Bull.

Actually photo 1 seems very much like Mr.Curtis in 'Some like it hot', so quite effective.
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Amelia Harper
Deck Hand
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Wales Wales


WWW
« Reply #137 on: January 11, 2013, 08:42:45 pm »

I have seen a photo, from a US SF Convention, of a young man with a beard wearing the Slave Leia costume, standing with an Asian young lady dressed as Han Solo - so I'd say go for it, beard or not!
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matrioshka
Deck Hand
*
United States United States


« Reply #138 on: January 12, 2013, 09:06:12 pm »


Not terribly steamy, more of a gypsy/peasant look. The corset's right for the era, probably the most accurate thing there.
In guy mode, I'm what you would call "sturdy yeoman stock". Think John Bull.

Actually photo 1 seems very much like Mr.Curtis in 'Some like it hot', so quite effective.

Thank you (blushes). I do my best, and have fun doing it. To be fair, I had some help with these.
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mizzarrogh
Gunner
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Sweden Sweden


« Reply #139 on: October 06, 2017, 05:23:10 pm »

I just found this post today and i am happy!  Kiss

I hawe a question, i am sure i am possibly not the first one to ask this, but if i want to be a lady, but in reality looks more like Mr "Big Clive" what should i do about my face to look more ladylike, and not just as a regular transvestit (no offense)?

(unfortunatly i does not look like Robert De Niro in Stardust movie if i just wering a dress... even if hi´s the coolest person on earth in that scene.  Smiley )

I think i can make a dress with some stuffing that make my waists and but look a bit more feminin, since it´s allredy in some old type female dresses, but... BUT... my face also looks like the word right before this word... Cheesy I hawe no idea what to do about that...

Any tips and trixies?  Smiley

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Sorry for my Horrible English... i still trying to learn... )



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Fairley B. Strange
Zeppelin Overlord
*******
Australia Australia


Relax, I've done much dumber things and survived..


WWW
« Reply #140 on: October 06, 2017, 10:55:24 pm »

Well, to be entirely honest and practicable, not every biological-woman actually looks like a hyper-feminine Supermodel either, so if you want to dress as a woman there is no law stating you can't join the ranks of the average, quite-plain, rather-mannish, or even completely-hideously-ugly women and still be quite happy, if you so wish.

Depending upon your sense of humour, there is even the option of using a form of self-parody if you are unsure of managing a transformation and still be comfortable and accepted (dependant on circumstances, of course), e.g.:
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/sailor-bubba

Personally, as a bald spectacled moustache-bearer, I look more like the Monopoly-guy than MarilynMonroe, so whenever I frock-up I'm obviously an unattractive-man-having-fun-in-a-dress than any form of believable woman.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 11:08:10 pm by Fairley B. Strange » Logged
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #141 on: October 07, 2017, 01:08:59 am »

I just found this post today and i am happy!  Kiss

I hawe a question, i am sure i am possibly not the first one to ask this, but if i want to be a lady, but in reality looks more like Mr "Big Clive" what should i do about my face to look more ladylike, and not just as a regular transvestit (no offense)?

(unfortunatly i does not look like Robert De Niro in Stardust movie if i just wering a dress... even if hi´s the coolest person on earth in that scene.  Smiley )

I think i can make a dress with some stuffing that make my waists and but look a bit more feminin, since it´s allredy in some old type female dresses, but... BUT... my face also looks like the word right before this word... Cheesy I hawe no idea what to do about that...

Any tips and trixies?  Smiley

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Sorry for my Horrible English... i still trying to learn... )





I think there is no limitation in that sense in contemporary 21st C society. You may want to search the meaning of the term "Gender*uck, where * denotes the letter f. I don't particularly like that style, as I am more of a "non binary" presentation advocate myself. One of my two Steampunk personas is an elf-like Germanic "third gender" or "two-spirit" engineering officer.

The best example of that "gender*uck" style is the contemporary European singer known as "Conchita Wurst. " as I wrote, I really don't like that contrast, but that is personal preference.

Unfortunately, open crossdressing is not something that you would have found in daylight of Victorian society, though it very much did happen in the night behind closed doors or an underworld / red light district setting. There are in fact a number of Victorian Era photos featuring crossdressing men and women, but the photos were of the salacious kind.
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mizzarrogh
Gunner
**
Sweden Sweden


« Reply #142 on: October 08, 2017, 02:28:36 pm »

Thank You wery much Guys!

Interesting points os wiew here.

I was curious if it was possilble for me to play a female caracteer, or if i should just simply forgot about it.

I think i will continue investigate those ideas.


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Miranda.T
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United Kingdom United Kingdom



« Reply #143 on: October 08, 2017, 08:11:57 pm »

Good grief, how on Earth did I miss this thread? It's pretty long too - I'll have to see if I can find  quiet hour to read through it (although with so much that I have planned to get done at the moment I don't quite know when that will be!) Anyway, back on topic...

Dear Mizzarrogh, as Admiral Willhelm mentions, there are numerous debates on gender over on The Queer Gear thread, but as to the topic at hand here, I suppose it really depends on how far you want to push the femme image. Will you be happy to be seen as a male adopting a femme character (after all, there are plenty of female cosplayers who portray a male character, so why not the other way around?) or do you want your image to be as feminine as possible?

You mentioned body shape. Steampunk is perfect from that point of view; the almost compulsory corset pulls in the tum and you don't need hip and bum padding if you are wearing a full petticoated or crinolined skirt (although I must admit that whatever I'm wearing I always do use it, as otherwise it just doesn't feel right). Boobs of course need a bit of attention. Depending on how much flesh you have there to start with you may be able to use a gell-pad bra and 'chicken fillets' (silicone enhancers). Full breast forms can be very expensive, although alternatives such as the classic 'balloon filled with birdseed/wallpaper paste/jelly/etc.' is never very successful and if it bursts... You can just pad a bra out with something like cuddly toy stuffing, but it doesn't have the weight or movement to look right.

As to the face, well the single most important determinant of how a face is perceived is hairstyle. Find one that suits and you're half-way there. After that, it's amazing what can be achieved with shading and contouring. Have a look on YouTube and you'll find hundred's of how-tos on that, some by GGs and some by TGs. One thing though, do be prepared to do a lot of experimenting and throw in bags of perseverance.

On a historical note, there are many documented examples of FtoM cross-dressing in the Victorian era. Many of these can be seen as something women had to do to progress a career in a thoroughly male dominated world, but for others it went well beyond satisfying ambition (for example by marrying another woman) and so must have been an active choice to adopt that gender. Certainly the other way around (MtoF) would have been vastly more difficult at that time, although certain individuals such as the Chevalier de Beaumont (Georgian era, admittedly) did persue this.

Yours,
Miranda.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 09:04:56 pm by Miranda.T » Logged
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #144 on: October 08, 2017, 09:13:55 pm »

I'd say. I had to read some of it myself as it precedes my arrival at this forum. It seems this thread doesn't just concentrate on cross-dressing (as opposed to gender bending). There are alternatives, unless you are a set in passing as female - that basically depends on what you are trying to do. Since there are so many  occupation roles in Steampunk that are non-traditional female, that means that androgynous fashion will enter the picture.

Lt. General Julin Wodinaz Bahlmann
Right click to zoom
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #145 on: October 08, 2017, 10:49:36 pm »

Good grief, how on Earth did I miss this thread? It's pretty long too - I'll have to see if I can find  quiet hour to read through it (although with so much that I have planned to get done at the moment I don't quite know when that will be!) Anyway, back on topic...

you may be able to use a gel-pad bra and 'chicken fillets' (silicone enhancers).

As to the face, well the single most important determinant of how a face is perceived is hairstyle. Find one that suits and you're half-way there. After that, it's amazing what can be achieved with shading and contouring. Have a look on YouTube and you'll find hundred's of how-tos on that, some by GGs and some by TGs. One thing though, do be prepared to do a lot of experimenting and throw in bags of perseverance.

This thread is very old and as you can see many pictures are already missing, so people tend not to visit the thread. It's not surprising you didn't find it.

Just make sure you don't confuse the real chicken breasts for the silicone enhancements;otherwise the family will find dinner is a little "chewy"  Grin

I second the part about the hair. It is probably the single most important part for the face. For every day wear, I chose a 1920s "shingle bob" haircut which easily translates from the Jazz Age/ArtDeco/Dieselpunk Era to the 1990s goth looks...

Practical Androgyny 101

« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 11:18:29 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
mizzarrogh
Gunner
**
Sweden Sweden


« Reply #146 on: October 13, 2017, 12:50:19 pm »

Thank´s!

Interesting point of wiev here, i like the idea You show here.

I hawe not decided yet if i will go for that or play an actual femme carracter as i intended from begining.


Miranda.T

Thank You so much for those words!
It straightened out lot of questionmarks for me!

I think i will try going for that femme carracter You mentioned and give it a try.
Most because i so badly want to make that dress i hawe in my head... Cheesy
And make the meeting a bit more diversified, there are not so many real woman here that are interested in this dressing and RPG thing yet.
In RPG i hawe played female carraters for so long now i want to try out some design ideas and see if it will work.



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Miranda.T
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United Kingdom United Kingdom



« Reply #147 on: October 14, 2017, 11:21:03 am »

(snip)
Miranda.T

Thank You so much for those words!
It straightened out lot of questionmarks for me!

I think i will try going for that femme carracter You mentioned and give it a try.
Most because i so badly want to make that dress i hawe in my head... Cheesy
(snip)

My pleasure! If you have any questions around the dress-making process or conversely hints and tips for it please do post them up either here or elsewhere on Anatomical. Do you have a particular character in mind or are the details yet to be evolved?

Yours,
Miranda.

P.S. Another thought just occurred to me. If you do decide to use below the waist padding, there are two kinds you can get ready-made - foam and silicone pads. Foam is fine for the hips, but go for silicone for the derriere itself; as this bit naturally takes all your weight as you sit the foam kind quickly get squashed and loose their shape.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 12:33:04 pm by Miranda.T » Logged
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #148 on: October 14, 2017, 01:50:29 pm »

Thank´s!

Interesting point of wiev here, i like the idea You show here.

I hawe not decided yet if i will go for that or play an actual femme carracter as i intended from begining.


Miranda.T

Thank You so much for those words!
It straightened out lot of questionmarks for me!

I think i will try going for that femme carracter You mentioned and give it a try.
Most because i so badly want to make that dress i hawe in my head... Cheesy
And make the meeting a bit more diversified, there are not so many real woman here that are interested in this dressing and RPG thing yet.
In RPG i hawe played female carraters for so long now i want to try out some design ideas and see if it will work.






In my experience it is always a good idea to start with a sketch or in my case a Photo Shop /GIMP illustration to start settling the concept. Since you mention that this is an RPG character, then you must already have a clear image of the character's background story, etc. Why not share that in this or a new thread?

For example, I have two very long posts in this thread detailing my two characters /personas:

http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,49108.msg983624.html#msg983624

JW
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 02:05:36 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
mizzarrogh
Gunner
**
Sweden Sweden


« Reply #149 on: October 15, 2017, 11:58:18 am »

I hawe not made this  particular carracter yet, but i think You are right, i will spend some more time with paper and pencils...
(right at the moment i working on my medieval knight templar clothings, i can put up pictures in another tread if interested, but i am not sure if it was concidered as steampunk...)
I will deffinitly come back to tis tread in the future.
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