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Author Topic: HELP! Need to join ceramic and plastic parts  (Read 3274 times)
elShoggotho
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« on: February 06, 2009, 07:32:52 pm »

So I've got that immeasurably spiffing ceramic tube, but I don't see a method of joining it with other materials short of drilling into it. The problem is that it eats steel alive. I tried to clean it with steel brushes and left a steel stain instead.

Any advice how I should go about to join a ceramic tube and plastic parts?
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JingleJoe
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2009, 07:43:12 pm »

Epoxy has glued everything for me just fine Smiley
But the fact that it is ceramic suggests to me that you may be heating it, then epoxy would not be a good idea because when it burns it gives off noxious death fumes.
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elShoggotho
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2009, 08:09:49 pm »

It's ceramic because I'm tinkering with stuff again. It's just too spiffing as a raygun barrel to pass it up. No heat involved there.
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2009, 08:14:12 pm »

Check out this site. It has all kinds of advice about gluing various materials together.

http://www.thistothat.com/cgi-bin/glue.cgi?lang=en&this=Ceramic&that=Plastic

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JingleJoe
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2009, 08:14:58 pm »

I might add that epoxy will stick better if you sand the curface you're gluing first Smiley although I have epoxied shiny metal to shiny metal before and it withstood the full force of me bending it. So it's pretty good even without sanding Smiley

Also glue it in a warm-ish room for the strongest hold!
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jringling
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2009, 08:43:53 pm »

Over here we have a glue called E6000. This stuff sticks to everything, and it is easier to handle versus a 2 part epoxy. If you can find it, give it a try.
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elShoggotho
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« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2009, 01:15:25 am »

No E-6000 and variants over here. I might try cyanoacrylate and brass parts to provide more surface for the glue, but I'd prefer something stronger.
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Prof_Auerbach
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2009, 01:21:30 am »

I love E6000, it's saved me on many an occasion. I glued a digital watch to the handlebars on my motorcycle with the stuff and it never came off, even after a few years of rain, cold, grease, motor vibration and two accidents.

My girlfriend laughed at me when I proclaimed the amazing nature of the stuff. She's seen the light, after I've repaired two handbags and numerous shoes for her.
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2009, 01:27:38 am »

JB Weld? No idea if it's available in Germany, but it is available in the UK. It says it works on ceramic, but I've only ever used it on metal and plastic.
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elShoggotho
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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2009, 01:32:39 am »

I might be convinced to order some of that stuff, but only if some other methods fail.

EDIT: There's http://www.jbweld.de/ - I'm saved.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 01:35:10 am by elShoggotho » Logged
Otto Von Pifka
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2009, 02:00:07 am »

JB weld cures very slowly, make sure it doesn't sag or drip a few hours after you walk away from sticking it all over. it's best to fully support the pieces while it's curing too. a splint-like setup would work, especially if you can then pick up the part and lay it down on different sides, to level out the sags before they firm up.

is the ceramic glazed or is it bare? bare will do better in the long run. if it's glazed you might want to rough it up with some sandpaper if possible.

I have glued stuff together using 5 minute epoxy to tack it together then a good layer of JB weld to do the grunt work.

you can grind and sand JB weld easy enough if you just let it be for a few days, so it's really hardened up well. seems to me it's still kind of fragile the first few days, but after that it's tougher than nails. it cures much quicker in the summer but it also seems to sag easier then too.

I have used clear tape as a sort of dam to hold the epoxy until it firms up but don't leave it more than a few hours or the tape is pretty much permanent. you can still peel it off while the epoxy is still at that gummy stage.
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elShoggotho
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2009, 02:04:13 am »

JB Weld Kwik might do the trick. It's not exactly a connection that would be heated up.

Hm. Maybe there's still some of the two-component epoxy stuff my mum used to bind the glass fiber that's the permanent coat of the family's wooden canoe...
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Otto Von Pifka
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« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2009, 02:13:25 am »

good rule of thumb with epoxy is the slower it cures, the stronger it usually ends up.

make sure the epoxy used for gluing the glass on that canoe isn't just a polyester resin, they work great for that specific task but are woefully underpowered for brute strength applications.
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Gazongola
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« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2009, 04:00:27 am »

A ceramic tube that eats steel? 0.o How? I would also suggest epoxy or something. Not cyanoacrylate because thats a solvent, designed to melt surfaces together. No good at all.
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elShoggotho
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« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2009, 11:28:51 am »

I tried to clean that ceramic tube with a dremel-based steel brush. The dirt clinged on, but the brush left a steel stain, as a brass brush would leave a brass stain on harder materials. Never seen that before.
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Der Tinkermann
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« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2009, 05:04:43 pm »

There is this:

http://www.kaufkabel.de/Leim-und-Spray/1284/1017679/BISON-2-KOMPONENTEN-KLEBER.html
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Nefthys
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« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2009, 07:12:57 pm »

You should ask Maggie Pie, she is a ceramic major.
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« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2009, 10:08:39 pm »

Silicon carbide paper cuts everything, so I'd suggest roughening the tube with some before you glue.
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elShoggotho
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« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2009, 09:36:14 pm »

First off, I'm trying contact glue. If that doesn't work, it's JB Weld time.

Oh, I've cut off a bit of the tube to give additional contact points, looks like some Gothic cathedral support. Hope it works out like it should. I simply love diamond cutting wheels.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 09:38:47 pm by elShoggotho » Logged
elShoggotho
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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2009, 01:40:30 am »

It didn't. I ended up drilling some holes into the tube to attach leather. Works quite well, only needs some more supporting parts to keep the gun from jamming. Nerf darts stuck in the pre-barrel cage and stuff. Await the finished construction tomorrow.
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blacklines
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2009, 08:39:26 pm »

pc-7 and pc-11 are great for attaching ceramic--theyll likely hold onto anything-the difference between the two is that pc-11 is white-ish and will cure under water, where the pc-7 will not cure when wet and is a grey--both can be dyed to some degree.  I have a BFA in glassblowing and ceramics, so if there are questions about either or both of these topics, im all ears with a bit of mouth attached.
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JingleJoe
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« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2009, 09:15:23 pm »

pc-7 and pc-11 are great for attaching ceramic--theyll likely hold onto anything-the difference between the two is that pc-11 is white-ish and will cure under water, where the pc-7 will not cure when wet and is a grey--both can be dyed to some degree.  I have a BFA in glassblowing and ceramics, so if there are questions about either or both of these topics, im all ears with a bit of mouth attached.
Hey you, hang out in the How To section okay Smiley?

Incidentally I think there's some pretty useful information here, to the How To board it goes!
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Mr Peter Harrow, Esq
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« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2009, 12:15:39 am »

Try milliput, it is an epoxy plastic, not glue, and is both moldable before it cures and a dream to work afterwards. You can join the ceramic to the metal in an obvious but planned manner, it has many, many uses.
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elShoggotho
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« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2009, 02:16:37 am »

I'd need white milliput though, because the green-yellow stuff wouldn't do too much good - or I use Green Stuff, which is quite affordable too if not bought from that reseller in Nottingham.

...but my problem is solved, albeit in a somewhat destructive manner.
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« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2009, 07:39:29 pm »

When I was doing my undergrad in Ceramics we were surprised to find the most reliable adhesive to be 'Liquid Nails' LN-202 Ceramics Projects Adhesive provided you give it about 72 hours to cure. It worked well on both glazed and unglazed surfaces and outperformed most of the  'professional' ceramic adhesives. 
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