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Author Topic: Welding. (updated with answers on how to weld brass)  (Read 18990 times)
Zer0
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« on: January 10, 2009, 01:47:12 pm »

How to... weld...


I know, wait, before you commence with the hekling ladies and gentlemen let me assure you I don't mean a complete how to. though that could help.

More so I want to know the best technique for welding brass. Let me rephrase. Maybe not the absolute best, but a method by which you can get a professional finish and a moderately strong hold, and not soldering but welding.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2009, 05:43:18 am by Zer0 » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2009, 02:20:04 pm »

Brazing.  I do mine with an O/A torch and a stick of brazing rod.  Think of it as midway between soldering and gas welding.  Melts brass alloys at around 800 degrees that adhere to the parent metal via capillary action.  Pretty strong, actually.

Brazing is a little bit science and a little bit art.  Takes a while to get the hang of it, but some nice results can be obtained with practice.

Here's one article that describes it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazing

VBR,

Pat




How to... weld...


I know, wait, before you commence with the hekling ladies and gentlemen let me assure you I don't mean a complete how to. though that could help.

More so I want to know the best technique for welding brass. Let me rephrase. Maybe not the absolute best, but a method by which you can get a professional finish and a moderately strong hold, and not soldering but welding.


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JingleJoe
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2009, 07:36:31 pm »

From the original How To topic;

Learn how to weld Smiley


Edit: oops messed up the code!
« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 11:32:23 pm by JingleJoe » Logged

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Zer0
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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2009, 02:20:39 am »

it was only a mater of time before I asked a question already answered.. thank you for the directions good sir.
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Zer0
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« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2009, 04:21:35 am »

I looked through the arc welding documents weren't specific on what type of rod to use with what base metals. I want to know if it's possible to arc weld brass. From what I've seen the zinc in brass poses some problem but I don't understand why you can't use some other filler material.
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Zer0
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« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2009, 05:42:11 am »

answering my own questions:

Prosess to weld brass without loosing all the Zinc a compilation of data learned in the last
Hour of searching the net:

Tig is a rather popular method for welding brass but you have to have a constant gas source of argon, with a tungston electrode used only for heating while a rod of filler material is added to the pool manually. Not my cup of tea.


So I am going with SMAW sheilded metal arc welding. Using a 1851 electrode (rod) on direct current electrode positive setting. As the electrode heats it slowly releases a gas to protect the weld joint from contamanents. And keeps zinc from escaping from the base metal. 
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Adan Shepard
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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2009, 02:45:33 pm »

You mentioned not soldering but silver soldering is one of the best tried and is a tried and true methods of attaching brass parts together. i think it's called hard soldering as apposed to soft soldering which uses lead based solder. This is a standard method used by jewelers and gunsmiths and the tools are readily available. If welding is a challenge and soldering unacceptable, what about bolting or riviting the parts together? Would that work for the project you are working on?

Adan
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Zer0
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« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2009, 03:10:58 pm »

You mentioned not soldering but silver soldering is one of the best tried and is a tried and true methods of attaching brass parts together. i think it's called hard soldering as apposed to soft soldering which uses lead based solder. This is a standard method used by jewelers and gunsmiths and the tools are readily available. If welding is a challenge and soldering unacceptable, what about bolting or riviting the parts together? Would that work for the project you are working on?

Adan

I don't believe that bolting or riveting would do for my projects thus far, but I do believe that Silver Brazing is my best solution, contrary to what I posted earlier. After a bit of researching and a trip to the very nice fellows of weldingweb.com forum, I came to two choices, TIG welding and brazing to meet my needs. I find that brazing aught to work fine for my applications, is a good place to start learning the fundamentals of beads and such, and is rather inexpensive.
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fciron
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2009, 11:02:50 pm »

I am going to agree that silver brazing is the best method of fabrication with brass. The zinc has a way of doing surprising things when the parent metal melts.

There are some important differences for silver brazing, brass brazing rod, and welding. In silver brazing you want the tightest possible fit and then the molten solder is drawn into the joint by capillary action. When welding and brazing it is frequently (almost always) to cut a relief or bevel in the edges of the pieces to create a channel to be filled with the filler metal. You will not be running a bead or creating a fillet (the built up area in an inside corner) with silver solder, but you will be able to practice using the torch and judging temperature.

I have always found that the steepest part of the learning curve is getting used to the equipment. Once you are comfortable with the torch other techniques will come much easier.
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2009, 12:10:32 am »

Unless you are working on large scale pieces that need to take a lot of mechanical loading, then I'd be inclined to say stick to soldering or brazing. When you start to melt the parent metal, you are in for all kinds of fun.

For one thing, the zinc will oxidise very quickly, leaving you with lumps of dirty copper and lots of zinc oxide which is only usefull for making antisceptic sticking plasters to dress all the burns that you get from having molten metal floating about in your workshop.

but, hey! That's part of the attraction.

Go for it and display the battle scars proudly!!

Dr. Q.
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2009, 12:39:47 am »

I wish I could get my friend Danny in here. He started life in his father's radiator shop at the age of 6 brazing radiators for model T's. Some fifty-sixty years later he could teach more about welding in five minutes than I could learn in a lifetime.

The only man I've ever seen braze galvanized steel to copper and make it work. His favorite saying was "I could weld you balls to your chin with spit!"

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Zer0
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2009, 12:53:09 am »

Unless you are working on large scale pieces that need to take a lot of mechanical loading, then I'd be inclined to say stick to soldering or brazing. When you start to melt the parent metal, you are in for all kinds of fun.

For one thing, the zinc will oxidise very quickly, leaving you with lumps of dirty copper and lots of zinc oxide which is only usefull for making antisceptic sticking plasters to dress all the burns that you get from having molten metal floating about in your workshop.

but, hey! That's part of the attraction.

Go for it and display the battle scars proudly!!

Dr. Q.

Well when melting brass you have to use gas to krleep the zink from escaping because it melts before the brass ... Suppsidly, though I haven't tested it, there is an shielded metal arc welding process which would use a n electrode that releases gas when melting that protects it's integrity.. But it seems scetchy and I've only seen the electrode listed in one place
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