The Steampunk Forum at Brass Goggles
October 22, 2017, 12:12:52 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Support BrassGoggles! Donate once or $3/mo.
 See details here.
 
   Home   Blog Help Rules Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Sword Cane Legality  (Read 37180 times)
Dr. Strontium
Guest
« on: December 03, 2008, 10:26:23 am »

Hello All,

Had a conversation with colleague last night (a fund raiser for the Mad Scientists Benevolent Fund) over the legality of Sword Canes.
I was advised that they are illegal in Blighty now, due to anti-terrorism laws.

Methinks however that a gentleman so armed can run through any beggars that threaten the empire!

Can anyone comment from a position of knowledge?

Kind Regards,

Dr. S.
Logged
Flynn MacCallister
Zeppelin Overlord
*******
Australia Australia


Mad SCIENTIST!


WWW
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2008, 10:35:15 am »

The anti-terrorism laws (for once) are not to blame: sword-canes were illegal prior to this. Not only can you not carry one, it is illegal (as of 1988) to trade in sword-canes in the UK if they were produced more recently than 100 years ago. It is, of course, classified as a concealed weapon, and therefore illegal to carry in public.
Logged
The Kernel
Zeppelin Admiral
******
England England


Nutty Scientist


« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2008, 10:43:11 am »

I agree.
Over 100 years old counts as an antique, you may possess one but may not take it outside your home except with special police permission (which would usually require you to be accompanied by a police officer!)
If you get the chance to visit "The Royal Armouries" Leeds, they have a wonderful display of sword canes and similar disguised weapons (including air rifle umberelas) and a full explanation on the laws relating to bladed items etc.
Logged

One for whom the terms GEEK and NERD are considered great compliments
Dr. Strontium
Guest
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2008, 10:44:28 am »

Blast,

I shall have to amend my Christmas List now.....

Thank you for the insight nonetheless.

Dr. S
Logged
Orlando
Guest
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2008, 11:41:16 am »

Dr. Strontium,

On an episode of The Antiques Roadshow, a lady brought in a fine example from the early Victorian era with a beautiful engraved blade. I remember the valuation made it seem quite affordable, probably affected by the sword cane's restricted legal nature - nowadays, it can only really be regarded as something to show-off to your friends after dinner as an interesting curiosity!

Of course the legal aspect was discussed in a jocular way and the expert said: "It's more than a hundred years old and you brought it here well wrapped, and you were bringing it to The Roadshow, so I don't think the police will suspect you of any malintent... " - (the owner was an elderly lady). Presumably, the 'wrapped-up' comment was so that it was obvious that the item was being transported in a state that it was not ready to use as a weapon, and it was being moved around with good reason - for the specific purpose of its consideration as an antique on the show.

I'm sure Sir Nikolas Vendigroth would be able to give you an accurate statement on the legal situation if there is indeed any more to know on the subject!

Orlando.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2008, 11:45:15 am by Orlando » Logged
Sir Nikolas Vendigroth
Captain Spice
Immortal
**
United Kingdom United Kingdom



« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2008, 01:24:44 pm »

I think that between them, Orlando and The Kernel have the amtter just about wrapped up. Well done, chaps.
Logged

Quote from: elShoggotho
HE WRESTLES BEARS, HE DRINKS HIS ALE, HE LOVES HIS AUTUNITE! ON WEDNESDAYS HE GOES SHOPPING, THIS SONG IS UTTER SHI-

PM me about adding a thread to the OT archive!

_|¯¯|_
r[]_[]
Dr. Strontium
Guest
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2008, 01:30:35 pm »

Thanks for the advice.

It seems I need to track down an antique model, and then have it smuggled to my laboratory by an elderly lady.
Alas, amazon don't offer this a delivery option.

I recently moved a large quantity of cutthroat razors on the rail network. Seems I was lucky enough to get away with that one!

Regards all,

Dr. S
Logged
Sir Nikolas Vendigroth
Captain Spice
Immortal
**
United Kingdom United Kingdom



« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2008, 01:37:05 pm »

You'd have faced some interesting questions if you were stopped, but as long as you were transporting them with a good reason, you'd be fine.
Logged
Nex
Snr. Officer
****
Scotland Scotland



« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2008, 03:10:47 pm »

It is an offence to have a weapon, or anything that you have with intent to use as weapon, in public. The only exeptions are ones based on religion, or as part of a national dress/re-enactment.

Examples include a Scotsman's Sgian Dubh and Sikh's carrying a kirpan (technically this also extends to things such as someone in fancy dress as a police officer carrying a Truncheon).

Basicly if stopped by the police you would have to give a good reason as to why you had it in your possession and it would be up to the individual officer how to act.

Now personally I am not sure how common place Sword Canes were, but if you are in full period dress you would probably be okay. However if I was the Police Officer I would inquire as to why you didn't just carry a regular cane.

With ownership at home things appear to become a bit more grey, there are exceptions for museums and other such public collections in addition to the previous religions/nation/arts related exemptions, but I don't seem to be able to find anything specifically relating to an exception for private collections.

Hmm, I might go to the local police HQ and have a chat with someone about this sort of thing at some point.

Logged

Kor Greenfield
Gunner
**
United States United States


The Clockwork Alchemist


« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2008, 03:24:31 pm »

Does anybody know about the legality of these in the United States? Would a concealed weapons permit cover this?
Logged

Normal is something we've invented to keep out the demons and Gods and magic and monsters that live just on the other side of the "normal' world we've built for ourselves.
Sir A Poiselamppe
Zeppelin Overlord
*******
United Kingdom United Kingdom


Inventor of the Homing Battenburgram


WWW
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2008, 04:09:22 pm »

The crucial phase I beleive is "ready for use" you can transport such Items (in my case swords/ airsoft guns) if the container is secured... In some cases all this can mean is inside a binliner with tape wrapped around to prevent th item being used immidatley  and/ or tied in a knot
Logged

Wisconsin Platt
Snr. Officer
****
United States United States



« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2008, 04:16:26 pm »

Back in October you could have gotten one accidentally at T.K. Maxx   Smiley

From the Article

Quote
HIGH street chain TK Maxx was forced into a second embarrassing product withdrawal yesterday after a walking stick was found to conceal a 20-inch SWORD.

The firm pulled the cane from sale after the blade was discovered by a shocked customer.

A TK Maxx spokeswoman said the walking sticks were “artisan pieces” and store buyers were not aware of the concealed blades.

She said: “We took urgent steps to remove them from the floor.”



A statement on the firm’s website said: “TK Maxx takes the safety of its customers and associates very seriously. We greatly regret this has occurred.”

The chain insisted that it would be re-examining its product buying processes.
Logged

┌─┐
┴─┴
ಠ_ರೃ
DrTom
Snr. Officer
****
United States United States


Mad Psyentist


WWW
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2008, 04:20:46 pm »

Does anybody know about the legality of these in the United States? Would a concealed weapons permit cover this?

In the US, it will vary from state to state, so you'll want to check out where you live.  In most cases, it's legal to own or sell, but not to carry around with you.  In CA, you can't sell them, and in AZ, I understand that swords are legal as long as they're not concealed.  However, folding knives are concealable and a little loophole does not put a specification on blade length.  Thus, I suppose if an Arizonan wanted to create a folding sword cane, it would be legal.

I recall several years ago, John Popper (singer for Blues Traveler) got pulled over in WA and was arrested for his knife-in-an-umbrella.  When asked for a quote, he said laughingly, Boy, is my Mom going to be mad!

Logged

"We are the music makers.
      And we are the dreamers of dreams,"
                    --A. W. E. O'Shaughnessy
Orlando
Guest
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2008, 05:12:08 am »

It is an offence to have a weapon, or anything that you have with intent to use as weapon, in public. The only exeptions are ones based on religion, or as part of a national dress/re-enactment.
Examples include a Scotsman's Sgian Dubh...


Ah, so that's how you spell it! (It's pronounced "ski 'n' do").
I live on the Anglo-Scottish border and I've talked with Scotsmen about the national dress on ham radio. I knew about the dirk, but I'd never heard of the sgian dubh. Those being Gaelic words and me being a Sassenach, I never managed to find it in the encyclopaedia in the place where I thought the entry would be!

Orlando.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 05:41:03 am by Orlando » Logged
Magister
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United States United States


First Mate - The Brass Falcon Airship


« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2008, 07:12:11 am »

I own a couple of sword canes, and I can safely say that I'd rather carry a sturdy cane without a sword for self defense.

The minimal advantage they offer in a fight is massively outweighed by the legal issues and inconvenience of carrying and disguising it.
Logged
Zwack
Zeppelin Admiral
******
United States United States

And introducing the wonderful Irish (Mrs Z).


« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2008, 08:28:55 am »

It is an offence to have a weapon, or anything that you have with intent to use as weapon, in public. The only exeptions are ones based on religion, or as part of a national dress/re-enactment.
Examples include a Scotsman's Sgian Dubh...

Ah, so that's how you spell it! (It's pronounced "ski 'n' do").

Indeed... it translates as "black knife" (or more literally as "knife black")

Z.
Logged

"At least those oddballs are interesting" - My Wife.
I'm British but living in America.  This might explain my spelling.
Kor Greenfield
Gunner
**
United States United States


The Clockwork Alchemist


« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2008, 01:39:03 pm »

And they are gorgeous weapons!
Logged
Narsil
Immortal
**
United Kingdom United Kingdom



WWW
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2008, 02:33:08 pm »

There are basically three separate aspects of UK law which relate to weapons or potential weapons.

-Banned items; including sword canes, flick knives, disguised weapons etc. These are completely illegal to manufacture, import, trade or hire. However you may retain possession of these items if you already owned them before the law came into force. As has already been mentioned 'antiques' are generally exempt and may be traded.

-Offensive weapons. This is anything which is adapted or intended for use as a weapon ie to cause harm. There is no distinction, in UK law, between 'offensive' and 'defensive' weapons. This offense can potentially apply to anything, used or intended for use as a weapon. Context is very important here and the onus is on the prosecution to prove intent. However, if you are attacked or threatened you are legally entitled to use anything available to defend yourself as long as you use reasonable and proportional force, you're just not allowed to carry things specifically for that purpose. The only exception is where an individual has legal authority to carry a weapon, obvious examples being items issued to police officers and soldiers.

-Bladed articles. It is illegal to carry a knife or 'bladed article' in a public place (including your own vehicle) unless you have a legitimate reason to do so. Possible reasons include; use for work, as part of religious or national dress, legitimate recreational use (eg fishing or camping) etc. Knives with folding blades under 3 inches in length which do not lock open are exempt.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 03:21:47 pm by Narsil » Logged







A man of eighty has outlived probably three new schools of painting, two of architecture and poetry and a hundred in dress.
Lord Byron
Sir A Poiselamppe
Zeppelin Overlord
*******
United Kingdom United Kingdom


Inventor of the Homing Battenburgram


WWW
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2008, 03:03:52 pm »

Found mself wandering round Blackpool unintentionally armed with a Sabatier Knife 41/2 inces long, which I normally use to cut the Maderia cake with, I was sans cake at the time. Got quite paranoid  about it... still drank the Masala wine though... threw some into the sea for good luck, you can never tell.

AP-L
Logged
Nex
Snr. Officer
****
Scotland Scotland



« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2008, 05:48:18 pm »

Cheesy
Your welcome Orlando, your post brought up an interesting thing for me, the gaelic spelling of sassenach, I've always spelt it sasanach, which is apparantly the Irish way of spelling it.
I can only blame my Irish extended family for this horrible oversite on my part.
Grin

Well crafted Sgian Dubh's are really beautiful, these days they are most certainly for decoration rather than use so the blades are usually just as well decorated as the hilt.

I agree with Magister, a well made cane is probably a lot better in all respects for going out and about with, for a sword cane I think a display piece is really all one should ever be these days.
Logged
Dr. Strontium
Guest
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2008, 11:45:29 am »

Thank you all for your advice.

It seems I shall have to rely on my razor sharp wit when out and about.........
Logged
DrTom
Snr. Officer
****
United States United States


Mad Psyentist


WWW
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2008, 04:40:44 pm »

Quote
as part of religious or national dress,

That explains quite a bit for me...some time ago, a gentleman in the UK had sued for and won the right to wear a sword in public as part of his attire.  The news article was sketchy, but as they highlighted the more sensational components (his rather nonconventional belief that he was the reincarnation of King Arthur), indicates to me that this was on the grounds of religious attire.
Logged
Mercury Wells
Rogue Ætherlord
*
I insiste that you do call me WELLS. :)


« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2008, 03:42:07 am »

Hmmm!

I wonder if we could set up a Morris Dancing group and call ourselves:- "The SP Morris Dancers" and then use thick canes with concealed LARP swords . Wink Smiley
Logged

Oh...my old war wound? I got that at The Battle of Dorking. Very nasty affair that was, I can tell you.

The Ministry of Tea respectfully advises you to drink one cup of tea day...for that +5 Moral Fibre stat.
CPT_J_Percell
Board Moderator
Zeppelin Captain
**
England England


The werewolf Airship Captain.


WWW
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2014, 06:32:38 pm »

*Snip*
These can't ship anywhere these are illegal, and I am very sorry to hear that citizens of Britannia cannot even own something that is part of their own great heritage.
*Snip*
*Cough* *Cough*

There are always exceptions to the laws!
Logged

I suffer from a random misfiring synapse and a bad case of wolfen the turns me into a seven-foot-tall werewolf or a seven-foot great wolf!
https://dragon-rehoming-centre.myshopify.com/
http://purbry.wordpress.com
FenrisWolf
Officer
***
United Kingdom United Kingdom



WWW
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2014, 07:06:33 pm »

There are always exceptions to the laws!

Oh please tell me the how and where of this... I had my eye on an antique sword cane, but didn't buy it as I thought it wouldn't get through customs.


p.s. "The Werewolf Airship Captain" - Are you the Captain of an Airship manned by Werewolves, or a Werewolf that is an Airship Captain?
Either way, how does a fellow lycanthrope apply?
Logged

Fenris Wolf
Iconographic Capturer of Ætheric Personalities™
www.fenrisoswin.com 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.158 seconds with 17 queries.