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Author Topic: Is Steampunk Becoming Too Mainstream?  (Read 48124 times)
digitalboredom
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« Reply #75 on: July 06, 2008, 06:08:21 am »


Quote
... unintelligible gramer nd speling,...
It's "grammar and spelling." I didn't notice any other spelling errors, but I am not an expert at spelling, myself. Not to mention that I was not paying attention to the spelling until I caught this line....

Sincerely yours,

Doctor Z-kun.


I'm pretty sure he did that for effect
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Robert Sandler
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« Reply #76 on: July 06, 2008, 10:55:00 pm »

I would have to agree that it is not becoming mainstream.  During college orientation a couple weeks ago all the Electrical & Computer Engineering/Computer Science people were introducing themselves and I got crickets in the background when I mentioned that I was into steampunk.
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Frankensteam
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« Reply #77 on: July 06, 2008, 11:58:34 pm »

Other than view random things online such as this forum, I have never actually met another person that was into this genre.
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Derranged-Gadgeteer
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« Reply #78 on: July 07, 2008, 02:57:14 am »

I can't help but notice, even though steampunk itself may not be becoming mainstream, I do notice a gradual increase in the popularity of the victorian style in many things.  Furniture, clothing, movies, etc.  I personally would be worried of a neo-victorian fad in the mainstream which could do a number on those of us, the most devoted followers of our movement.

I doubt that such a fad would do us much good either, as after it passed we'd be lumped in with the materialistic "out-of-style" socialites hanging on our coattails.  Not to mention while the companies are exploiting the style, our work would be drastically devalued in the eyes of the unenlightened.  (you know what I'm talking about: "Why would you make something like that you can just go out and buy?"  I hear them say.)

And on top of all that, the rebellious, chaotic attitude that underlies the steampunk movement would, beyond a shadow of a doubt, be utterly ommitted by the mainstream; because of that those brought to the movement would water down what I understand as a staple of our identity.

If I could, and if a fad like that develops, I would seek to utterly devalue and shame the living hell out of any company whose work would downplay the handmade craft that characterizes steampunk.  I would do everything in my power to make sure that anything in our style, mass produced without the slightest care is seen as no better than a total waste of plastic and paint.

I don't know what I could do, But I guarantee I could do something.
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« Reply #79 on: July 07, 2008, 03:04:15 am »

I dont see problem than steampunk become mainstream because for me steampunk is only a sci-fi genre. For me  ''mainstream'' mean '' abundance horn'' where came to steampunk. Howewer, i understand than the appropriation by mass industry of the neo-victorian fashion movement (than i separate without fully dissociate of steampunk)  would be much more depleasant, knowing the fact it his anti-consumerist by definition.
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groomporter
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« Reply #80 on: July 07, 2008, 04:31:16 am »

Three years ago I became aware of this little known subculture that was Steampunk, but over time it seems to have grown at an incredible rate, most notably on Second Life.

Is this a good or a bad thing for the culture?

My experience with Goth suggests not Sad  Already I am seeing the "Is it Steampunk or not?" question cause a great many arguments, the very same thing that killed Goth.  Maybe it’s just me, but I like to decide for myself what is Steampunk, not have it dictated to me by some unelected governing body.  I don’t like to come across as elitist, far from it, I am just a casual fan, but I do worry that the culture will become sold out and that big corporations will invade the genre much like Alchemy Gothic and New Rock invaded Goth.

Goth started as more of a teen counter-culture thing though. I've seen it as starting as a form of teen-aged rebellion that has been diluted and commercialized into a fad and "club wear" sold by stores like Hot Topic, whereas, at least in the U.S., Steampunk has more of a fandom connection to SciFi/Fantasy fiction and role playing games, so I can see maybe neo-Victorian fashions maybe influencing some mainstream fashions, but not steam punk itself.
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Robert Sandler
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« Reply #81 on: July 07, 2008, 06:08:17 am »

Although it is true that Steampunk is different from the former victims of the mainstream, groomporter, that doesn't exactly mean that we are safe.  At best Steampunk going mainstream would invoke a change in the way society views consumerism, which no company with the ability to make it mainstream wants.  At worst it will turn Steampunk into yet another buzzword, attached to products to sell to the sheeple that follow trends for a few months until they move on to the next victim.  Unfortunately I feel that this latter case is more likely, but we will survive the onslaught and with some determination could make Steampunk glorious in the eyes of the public once the wave of ignorance has passed.
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KneeNAR
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« Reply #82 on: July 07, 2008, 01:12:19 pm »

I think it will take awhile for steampunk to reach mainstream status. Judging from my local area and some of the steamy people I know... I would probably be the youngest.

Even so, just like true goths and true punks, true steampunks will understand what it's about compared to trend-followers, and can see the humour in those who are just doing it to be "cool". Just sit back and have a giggle when you see someone who thinks they know what they're doing ^__^
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spcglider
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« Reply #83 on: July 07, 2008, 05:30:05 pm »

Is Medieval Fantasy too mainstream?  Is Retro-Futurism too mainstream? Is Cyberpunk too mainstream?

I feel that there will be room for whatever genre or style pops up.  As human beings, we have a penchant for loving variety. I call this being attracted to "flavor of the week".

Like all good things, Steam Punk will reach it's official "Flavor of the Week" status and will garner a respectable, if not tremendous following.  But people are fickle and always looking for the next fashion plate.  It, like many others, will expand and contract to the will of it's participants. Like Goth, it will most likely continue ... perhaps not in a "mainstream" fashion, but heck, I just spent a weekend with a bunch of folks dressed in Classic Star Trek uniforms. And they didn't care whether or not they were in fashion. They just love what they love.

And we should try to remember that Steam Punk is a fantasy concept.  Just like a living language, it is subject to change and modification as it is used and abused.
-Gordon
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Ms. Madeline S. Brightley
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« Reply #84 on: July 07, 2008, 10:07:29 pm »

Ladies and Gentlemen;

I would like to respectfully point out that the issue of 'mainstream' is, in fact, a non-issue. If there is an increase in public interest in the concept, as a genre or a subculture, it should really not affect your private interest. People are bound to enjoy the things that appeal to them. If we end up with new-comers amongst our ranks - I say welcome them with open arms and allow them to explore. Anyone without true active enjoyment of it will tire of the fad and wander away, leaving those to whom it actually means something.

Don't spend so much time worrying about who is or is not interested, and merely have fun on your own account. It is not as though we discovered it - steampunk has been there, waiting for the happy few to encounter it, since steam technology came about. I doff my hat to H.G. Wells, and the brilliant others who paved the way, and accept that others will be just as intrigued by their genius.

-Madeline S. Brightley
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Capt.Khrystoff
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« Reply #85 on: July 08, 2008, 12:21:58 am »

While it seems that most who have responded to this thread seem to have come to a general consensus, I feel the need to add my own two cents.

To me, the idea of steampunk becoming mainstream COULD be an absolute blessing... for a number of reasons:

1) "We" would be able to walk about in public freely in our top-hats, corsets, spats, and tails (and whatever other bits of fashion) we felt comfortable in without being made to feel like "we" are freaks.
2) If the anti-consumerism/hand crafted art of the culture took hold, it could mean the return/rise of genuine craftsmen (and women), producing quality products that some of the less creative, or scientifically inclined could obtain.
3) The "mainsteam-izing" of steampunk could signify an upswing in the intellectual status of society...adopting  more enlightend (or at least educated) thinking, and a realization that clothes do not have to reveal EVERYTHING to be tantalizing, sensual, and attractive.

All of that being said, there seems to be little chance of the "Big Companies" (like target, sony, hottopic and others) taking interest in the genre of Steampunk.
1) The genre itself seems to harbor ill-wil or, at least, distaste for/toward the "Big Boys"
2) From everything I have seen the genre itself is too varied for the "Big Boys" to really narrow down "What is Steampunk?" I have seen things from the very Scifi to the highly practical be labled as "Steampunk"
Likewise there seem to be few rules governing "What is Steampunk?" making it a marketing director's nightmare: "Who do we target?" "What type of product will hit the largest audience?" "You want to spend HOW MUCH to make the gears ACTUALLY work???" -Not gonna happen anytime soon.
3) Even if steampunk does become more widely accepted, it's not like everyone is going to adopt the fashion sensability. People are still going to wear Wranglers and Carhart to work on the fields or with their horses... or whatever else. The poor mislead "Frat-Daddies" (not to be confused with fraternity brothers) will continue to wear badly "plaid-ed" shorts, and hideously pink polo shirts

I don't suppose I could be too "anti-mainstream" because it is due to an article on AOLNews that brought me to the wonderful world of Steampunk. While reading the article, I discovered that this world of cogs and gears and Neo-Victorian fashion is where I had been trying to locate myself all along. I discovered that there were other people out there as cracked as I.

Anywho... I suppose I have put in more than my two cents... I do apologize for the rambling nature and any possible grammar errors I may have made.

~Khrystoff Gatsby,
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S.Sprocket
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« Reply #86 on: July 08, 2008, 01:14:48 am »

(mod hat on)
This is something that has been talked to death over in this forum.  we have some locked threads that argue for pages and pages on what exactly steampunk is, and weather it's "selling out".

I'll be monitoring this thread rather than closing it as I understand the need for those who are new to the forum to leave their 2 cents on the subject.  But please keep it constructive and leave out "my way or the highway" sentiment.
(mod hat off)

For the record, and without vanity, I should say I am one of about 25 individuals who have tried VERY hard for the past 2 years to promote steampunk in Second Life, and we are rather proud of it's popularity and strive nearly daily to keep it constructive.
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groomporter
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« Reply #87 on: July 08, 2008, 02:04:35 am »

At a SciFi/fantasy convention this past weekend I was wearing a pith helmet, a khaki Scottish officer's jacket and a -kilt- and I was repeatedly asked if I was doing the hunter from Jumanji.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/Groomporter/CONvergence2008/P1010025.jpg

I admit that without a raygun, goggles, cogs, or other steampunk stereotypes I may not have been that obvious, but the fact that I was associated with a movie that came out thirteen years ago suggested to me that even among SciFi/fantasy fans something vaguely Victorian is not necessarily recognized as steampunk. I would have passed it off if it was once, but when it was at least four times over the course of the weekend??

The other thing is that some of the "mainstream" articles in periodicals lately have featured work by steampunk Master Artisans like Datamancer which are things that the general pubic might see as really neat, but are less likely to influence the mainstream.
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elShoggotho
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« Reply #88 on: July 08, 2008, 02:19:36 am »

General Pubić... grand personage, sadly he caught some unspeakable disease at the ill-fated Siam Expedition of 1862. Grin
Slippery slope, but I refuse to slide it down all the way.

Back on topic: I was recognised as steampunk in one of the most unlikely locations: in a BDSM club run by a friend of mine. It's slowly seeping in, and I like it!
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Robert Sandler
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« Reply #89 on: July 08, 2008, 03:26:25 am »

I just realized: Steampunk wouldn't go mainstream we would go mainspring or mainsteam.
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groomporter
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« Reply #90 on: July 08, 2008, 04:43:52 am »

At a SciFi/fantasy convention this past weekend I was wearing a pith helmet, a khaki Scottish officer's jacket and a -kilt- and I was repeatedly asked if I was doing the hunter from Jumanji.


Lieutenant Mycroft St. John (foreground below) said he experienced the same comment regarding Jumanji. Both of us photographed by a local alternative newspaper:
http://citypages.com/slideshow/view/95974/5
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WoodenCorpse
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« Reply #91 on: July 08, 2008, 06:00:10 am »

I unfortunately have no doubt that Steampunk will eventually be swept up into the mainstream with all the trend followers screaming their what is and what is not rules. However, if any scene could stand up to the mainstream and hold it's ground against all that, I believe Steampunk can. Why? Because we have a better sensibility than to roll over and let the mainstream just take over. I have a feeling that years from now, when theres a shop called steamy-styles and 13 year olds are running around wearing plastic gears and ridiculous looking semi-Victorian clothes and yelling that their band that has been around for four months is stemapunk and Abney Park or The Vernian Process isn't... You'll still outshine them with our home made steampunked out decor, authentic victorian clothing, our amazing imaginations and most of all, our ability to be gentlemen and ladies with romantic ideals and upstanding ways. Something mainstream media could never put in a box and sell. And something I feel scenes that preceded us didn't have, at least not to this extent.
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Prof. Edward Penrose
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« Reply #92 on: July 09, 2008, 06:14:21 am »

Since I live in a small country pretty far away of the most commond sources of trends/styles/subcultures, most of the things that arrive here is "second hand" information, filtered by social and cultural factors. A very interesting example is the local version of the hardcore punk subculture. In early 2006, some teenagers with no social or cultural links with hardcore punk start to imitate the way of dressing. They were nicknamed Pokemones by the original hardcore punk people, so the word Pokemón was used in the derogative way of "hardcore wannabe". But later, by some strange reason, Pokemones become way too popular in Chile. The music they listen (reggeton instead of hardcore rock ...  yay), the way they dress, the language they use ... Suddently, the malls were packed of teens with erratics hairdos, lot of makeup, piercing and skater shoes. They got some
online mockumentals
and even a
TV talkshow
. With the popularity of the local mainstream, some interesting phenomena arise:

1) As Pokemones were so popular, some similar (at least in apperance) groups were confused or even amalgamated with them. So, most of the Emo, Goth, Otaku people in social places were just labeled as Pokemones. In the other side of the coin, trying to avoid their own massification, Pokemones start to take some elements of those other subcultures just for the sake of getting some individualism; so any Pokemón who like to listen (v.g.) Evanescence can claim (s)he's actually a Goth!

2) Too many Pokemones in the spotlight generated negative feelings of jealous and despise. Some radical groups of the society start to fuel hate campaigns of verbal and physical aggression in public places and webpages (I'll not add any link of those pages, for obvious reasons).

As a kind of conclusion from my above mentioned story:

1) When a trend becomes mainstream, is not actually the original one, it's just a mimic/copycat/lookalike of it.

2) People who actually adopt the new massive trend is just for the sake of fitting with the rest. They just wear the clothes or use the language, but they are not willing to perform any more time/energy consuming task like read, think, live, study or work based on the (sub)culture.

But, the question remains ... Is Steampunk becoming too mainstream? I started an investigation about it and I got some symptons that actually we are pretty far away of massification ... yet:

1) Just taking a stroll to the local mall. No Steampunk Wannabees.
2) In meetings with friends, I start to tell people I like Steampunk style. I got crickets. Or at least some polite inquire about what's Steampunk.
3) As a (Steampunk) user of Second Life, I realized that Steampunk sims are by far outnumered by any other styles of sim. I even realized that a number of people I met in typical Steampunk sims like Caledon or New Babbage are not in Steampunk style. They go there just for the sake of being in the Victorian era. In the other side, I realized that some builder were asked of building Steampunk items (specially vehicles), and some shops are selling very doubtful stuff labelled as Steampunk.
4) I made a search in Amazon. Products labeled as Steampunk are mostly books (205), and in the second place MP3 downloads (15).

So, even we can get some alert of possible Steampunkese manifestations present in mainstream (like
this video
*), I think that Steampunk still have a healthy distance of possible perversion of the mass.


* My apologies to any fan of The Fratellis for using the video as a reference of Pseudosteampunk. I also offer my excuses for the long post.
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Victoria The Mistress
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« Reply #93 on: July 09, 2008, 03:42:30 pm »

Another article on this kind of subject - peruse, digest, macerate, regurgitate.......

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/06/LVL211GOO2.DTL
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chromegrrrl
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« Reply #94 on: July 09, 2008, 08:03:15 pm »

Ladies and Gentlemen;

I would like to respectfully point out that the issue of 'mainstream' is, in fact, a non-issue. If there is an increase in public interest in the concept, as a genre or a subculture, it should really not affect your private interest. People are bound to enjoy the things that appeal to them. If we end up with new-comers amongst our ranks - I say welcome them with open arms and allow them to explore. Anyone without true active enjoyment of it will tire of the fad and wander away, leaving those to whom it actually means something.

Don't spend so much time worrying about who is or is not interested, and merely have fun on your own account. It is not as though we discovered it - steampunk has been there, waiting for the happy few to encounter it, since steam technology came about. I doff my hat to H.G. Wells, and the brilliant others who paved the way, and accept that others will be just as intrigued by their genius.

-Madeline S. Brightley

Well put. The internet was not mainstream in the late 80's and early 90's, but still I don't recall ever sitting around with fellow west coasters debating whether our style of punk was going to be assimilated and exploited by the fashionistas. After all, we'd taken elements from old school punk and ska (in both music and style) and conformed it to our desires. Of course, we also considered it a bit of homage to those influences. I don't consider it a high crime to walk into a Hot Topic and pick up some hair color, although I'm still more likely to use good old fashioned Jello or Kool aid for my locks (out of purely financial and geographical reasons of convenience.)


I think I'm drawn to steampunk because of the inventiveness of the makers, and the talent of the writers and artists. I admire the skillfulness of it all. The Victorian dressing up isn't exactly my thing, but I appreciate seeing the costumes and daily wear of those that do. I like history, I like machines, I like sci-fi and the few steampunkians that I have met IRL have been been fantastic people. So while I may or may not be a steampunk (probably not) I can (and do) admire it greatly.
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Think_Long
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« Reply #95 on: July 09, 2008, 08:13:44 pm »


I think I'm drawn to steampunk because of the inventiveness of the makers, and the talent of the writers and artists. I admire the skillfulness of it all. The Victorian dressing up isn't exactly my thing, but I appreciate seeing the costumes and daily wear of those that do. I like history, I like machines, I like sci-fi and the few steampunkians that I have met IRL have been been fantastic people. So while I may or may not be a steampunk (probably not) I can (and do) admire it greatly.

i'm the same way. being new to the forum, it is obvious that i am a part of the 'mainstreaming' of the group. but it seems to me that it's not really so much about being different and unique, and more about just sharing an enthusiasm for similar themes.  i read a couple of issues of the steampunk magazine, and it was interesting, but i was turned off by all of the militant sounding 'we're taking the industry back from the man' type of talk.

but if there are people who feel differently, i'm sorry i've ruined the group. i always tend to show up to things a little too late . . . sigh
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Ms. Madeline S. Brightley
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« Reply #96 on: July 09, 2008, 10:18:36 pm »

I think I'm drawn to steampunk because of the inventiveness of the makers, and the talent of the writers and artists. I admire the skillfulness of it all. The Victorian dressing up isn't exactly my thing, but I appreciate seeing the costumes and daily wear of those that do. I like history, I like machines, I like sci-fi and the few steampunkians that I have met IRL have been been fantastic people. So while I may or may not be a steampunk (probably not) I can (and do) admire it greatly.

What more could one ask? Enthusiasm and admiration are half the battle. There's no need to conform to the stereotypical image of a steampunk, just enjoy it for its own sake.

I remember having a discussion with one of my teachers when I was in high school about individuality, which he questioned the actuality of (citing the AC/DC tshirt I was wearing at the time as proof of conformity). My argument has always been that individuality comes from what ways a person chooses to conform to different ideas, and the ways they break apart from them. Once something has been introduced to a culture, it becomes part of it, either absorbed into society as a whole or adopted as part of a sub-culture - the same has happened with hundreds of things over the years. However, it's what it means to each person that makes it interesting.
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« Reply #97 on: July 10, 2008, 06:14:59 am »

I think I'm drawn to steampunk because of the inventiveness of the makers, and the talent of the writers and artists. I admire the skillfulness of it all. The Victorian dressing up isn't exactly my thing, but I appreciate seeing the costumes and daily wear of those that do. I like history, I like machines, I like sci-fi and the few steampunkians that I have met IRL have been been fantastic people. So while I may or may not be a steampunk (probably not) I can (and do) admire it greatly.

I suppose I have to be the third to quote this.   Smiley

I'm here for similar reasons, though I doubt that I've ever fit into a subculture in my life. With steampunk though, I've found a lot of polite people who are interested in many of the same things I am, and who can do things that I admire.

Who knows, you may get me wearing goggles one day yet!  Cheesy
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chromegrrrl
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« Reply #98 on: July 10, 2008, 05:57:48 pm »

What more could one ask? Enthusiasm and admiration are half the battle. There's no need to conform to the stereotypical image of a steampunk, just enjoy it for its own sake.

And that's exactly my plan. From the steamers I've met online and off I feel pretty comfortable that I'll be weighed by my merits as a person and not on how steampunk I can dress or act.

As for steampunk influences leaking into the mainstream, I don't think that would be a terrible thing either for the mainstream or steampunk. At the very least a little bit of neo-Victorianism fashion, I know I'd certainly appreciate not seeing the teenagers around here showing off their coinslots and muffintops. Perhaps more Victorian modesty would encourage some of the older gentlemen around town to cover their back cleavage with a little more fabric and a little less perspiration for the benefit of the ladies about town.

One can only hope.
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Ms. Madeline S. Brightley
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« Reply #99 on: July 10, 2008, 07:14:40 pm »

As for steampunk influences leaking into the mainstream, I don't think that would be a terrible thing either for the mainstream or steampunk. At the very least a little bit of neo-Victorianism fashion, I know I'd certainly appreciate not seeing the teenagers around here showing off their coinslots and muffintops. Perhaps more Victorian modesty would encourage some of the older gentlemen around town to cover their back cleavage with a little more fabric and a little less perspiration for the benefit of the ladies about town.

One can only hope.

While we're hoping, can we add 'common courtesy' to the list? It would be marvelous if good manners reappeared! ;-)
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