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Author Topic: Is Steampunk Becoming Too Mainstream?  (Read 47546 times)
Mac Julius II
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« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2008, 05:57:16 pm »

"Victoria the Mistress" has posted the most intelligent and thoughful response to the question. 
I agree with her views entirely.  Splendid writing and thoughts, Victoria.

To answer the post question myself, "Mainstream" to me means that when I start seeing TV commercials for 'Target' hawking "Steampunk-Inspired" goods...you would know that it's definitley hit the mainstream.   

Also, if and when I see very young teens in shopping malls wearing outfits with cogs and gears,  that would be a good barometer that Steampunk would need to be re-defined.

That said,  I am not worrying about the genre at all becoming mainstream because the people involved with Steampunk are so
wonderfully unique, authentic and talented.  I mean, just look at the great talent and sheer love for Steampunk on this very forum!

Regards to All.  Art Donovan

Well...

A lot of good things have become corrupted after they went mainstream. Take, for instance, hip-hop. Now before everyone groans and tears out their hair, hear me out.

Hip-hop from the 70s and 80s is drastically different from what people consider hip-hop today. There were many different styles and many different types of people who grooved to hip-hop--just like with steampunk. During the 80s, rap became popular, and, because The Mainstream didn't distinguish between (this particular type of) rap and "hip-hop", these terms became synonymous, the corruption complete.

That could possibly happen with steampunk in the way you projected: young teens sporting cogs and gears and whatnot. I have to say, however, that the base form of the genre will never be corrupted. So, as you have mainstream "rap", you also have a smaller group of people who appreciate the older form. As you might have mainstream steampunk, you will also have a smaller group of people who appreciate the non-mainstream parts of steampunk.

You say that steampunk can never become mainstream because the people who "follow" steampunk are so "wonderfully unique, authentic and talented." I would say that mainstreaming something doesn't always mean ditching the creative part of it. There are many talented, unique hip-hop artists that will never be part of The Mainstream, changing and innovating the style to both fit and not fit what hip-hop is.
 
If steampunk becomes mainstream, I believe we will always have the core-base of steampunks, the ones who roll up their sleeves, slip on a pair of dirt-stained gloves, grab a hammer and get to work shaping steampunk into what they need it to be.
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« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2008, 06:19:48 pm »

I believe good sir, that Victoria is relating to the fact that most women that post pictures of themselves in this forum are almost always wearing clothes that fully cover their bodies and yet are still looking good and demonstrating induviduality. However many women out in the world today wear skimpy, "stripper" like clothing that may imply a lack of interest in cerebrall matters.

The inclusion of things like corsets and stockings etc in the steampunk aesthetic tantalises and leaves women in control.
(Have you seen how difficult it is to get a woman out of a corset against her will) Smiley

Sir. Silence

It apears that is indeed what she meant. In which case I understand where she's coming from Smiley
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« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2008, 06:33:43 pm »

Hopefully this makes some sense. I've been a bit scatterbrained lately.

For subcultures the title of mainstream is something of a double-edged sword. One one hand it allows for more people to become aware of and join that subculture. However, on the other it comes with the potential to "kill" it by losing sight of the basic ideals that initially established the subculture.

This is what I see has happened to Goth and Punk. When they first emerged on the scene they were indeed quite shocking and rebellious, as were the ideals they stood for. Political anarchy, reverence for the dead, and so on. There was some form of collective thought that tied these people together and which they expanded upon through music, fashion, et cetera; building upon intangible notions. But when the founders are gone the ideals have a tendency to fade leaving only the material behind.

Which brings us to the present. To-day Goth and Punk are merely the default trend for growing teens who want to be rebellious and shocking. All intellectual foundations are forgotten in lieu of what would make one's parents gasp. Though that is not true of everyone in Goth and Punk, it's just that those are the ones that I've encountered most often. These are also the ones that made me abandon those cultures altogether; confining it within rigid bounds and elitism.

With Steampunk I see it more as a state of mind that has started taking shape in the physical world. The very fact that it's foundations are literary is what hooked me. I feel that everyone on this site is an intellect and are all very polite and open to the views of others. The Steampunk philosophy of no rules, no bounds I feel will make Steampunk stand apart even if it does become a mainstream style.

For now I'm not worried. Que sera, sera.
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« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2008, 06:50:30 pm »

Many thanks Elliott for your kind words!

And Mr Faust I am so pleased we have reached an understanding! Wink

May Steampunk evolve and flourish in its many unique incarnations.....  Cheesy
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« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2008, 07:35:52 pm »

And Mr Faust I am so pleased we have reached an understanding! Wink

Better than an argument, no? Smiley
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« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2008, 07:57:31 pm »

Indubitably, dear Sir!  Cheesy
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« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2008, 07:59:33 pm »

And Mr Faust I am so pleased we have reached an understanding! Wink

Better than an argument, no? Smiley

Much better.  *Doffs hat to both of you*

I would like to thank all of you who had nice things to say about my comment, reading many of the other comments here I find them to have the same basic, pragmatic view, just worded differently.

I'm glad to be part of a community of people with similar interests and pleasures, and welcome the cordial discussions that frequently seem to happen around here.

Z.
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« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2008, 08:14:04 pm »

This same issue has come up several times on a piracy forum I've belonged to for several years. Will the fact that piracy has gone "main stream" ruin it for those of us who have been doing pirate reenactment way before the POTC movies hit? The general concensus is, no. The newcomers it brings in, who will stay after all the hoopla dies down, will be an asset. Those who were just on a Jack Sparrow ride, will move on to something else eventually. You can already find POTC stuff in the "get rid of it" bin at Wallmart, and rubber swords in the dollar store.

I think Steampunk is pretty safe — unless Jerry Bruckheimer makes a movie about it. Then you'll know Steampunk has really gone mainstream. Grin

In the meantime, I just keep doing what I like, be it pirate, steampunk, or a combination of the two.

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« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2008, 08:58:41 pm »

And Mr Faust I am so pleased we have reached an understanding! Wink

Better than an argument, no? Smiley

Much better.  *Doffs hat to both of you*

Doffing your hat at me, are you? Well...a tip of the hat to you, then Wink
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« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2008, 09:46:37 pm »

I have run across mentions of "steampunk" already in mainstream catalogs; I suspect the mainstreaming of the term and of perhaps some aspects of the aesthetic is imminent.  The item that I'm thinking of was some sort of corsetlike garment, with leather straps and metal buckles on the sides (I couldn't tell whether the metal was brass or not, but it seemed unlikely), described directly as "steampunk" in the accompanying text.  It looked vaguely SP.  I couldn't imagine it on most of the SP women I've met; those ladies would more likely (though not absolutely) wear real corsets.  It looked, in short, like a watered-down SPish item with a few token SP features, marketed to the mainstream.  I suppose it could work as a corset cover, for someone who isn't of the historical-accuracy school of thought.

It doesn't bother me really to see things like this.  I suppose a lady who wants one is free to shell out the ($70US? I can't remember) and one who is offended is of course free to vote against it with her $.  That's the glory of the modern world, where women have their own money.

Personally, I'd be happy to see a plethora of nice waistcoats, pocketwatches, hats, and such on the market, as I don't sew or have the best skills for building my own of related things.  I'd be better at stuff for the house.  In that respect, I'd take advantage of any mainstreaming, and put some of the stuff in the closet for the inevitable time when SP was no longer in fashion.  I do however understand the concerns of some on here who fear that mainstreaming would instead lead to a torrent of cheaply made - but highly priced - "SP" goods whether historically accurate or not.  I also understand that we don't want to see a flood of teenyboppers making this into a way to shock their parents.  But, I don't see that part happening just yet.  I suppose SP will one day have its own "alchemy gothic" selling overpriced goods to the wannabes.  The rest of us can look for quality stuff that's likely hiding in the wings.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 09:48:32 pm by Nikola Tesla » Logged

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« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2008, 10:19:34 pm »

I have run across mentions of "steampunk" already in mainstream catalogs; I suspect the mainstreaming of the term and of perhaps some aspects of the aesthetic is imminent.  The item that I'm thinking of was some sort of corsetlike garment, with leather straps and metal buckles on the sides (I couldn't tell whether the metal was brass or not, but it seemed unlikely), described directly as "steampunk" in the accompanying text.  It looked vaguely SP.  I couldn't imagine it on most of the SP women I've met; those ladies would more likely (though not absolutely) wear real corsets.  It looked, in short, like a watered-down SPish item with a few token SP features, marketed to the mainstream.  I suppose it could work as a corset cover, for someone who isn't of the historical-accuracy school of thought.

I saw that, it was in the Pyramid Collection catalogue, which is full of neat things.  They were fairly close to the right aesthetic, but didn't quite hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned--I didn't want it as much as many of the other things in the same catalogue Tongue
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« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2008, 10:24:10 pm »

I have run across mentions of "steampunk" already in mainstream catalogs; I suspect the mainstreaming of the term and of perhaps some aspects of the aesthetic is imminent.  The item that I'm thinking of was some sort of corsetlike garment, with leather straps and metal buckles on the sides (I couldn't tell whether the metal was brass or not, but it seemed unlikely), described directly as "steampunk" in the accompanying text.  It looked vaguely SP.  I couldn't imagine it on most of the SP women I've met; those ladies would more likely (though not absolutely) wear real corsets.  It looked, in short, like a watered-down SPish item with a few token SP features, marketed to the mainstream.  I suppose it could work as a corset cover, for someone who isn't of the historical-accuracy school of thought.

I saw that, it was in the Pyramid Collection catalogue, which is full of neat things.  They were fairly close to the right aesthetic, but didn't quite hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned--I didn't want it as much as many of the other things in the same catalogue Tongue
Yes, I believe that would be the one.  I used to do my holiday shopping out of there so they will pursue me to the ends of the earth.  Catalogs make good bathroom reading, however, and some of their stuff is kind of neat, so I don't really mind.   Wink
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« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2008, 10:33:10 pm »

Steampunk in the mainstream... I would appreciate the increase in steamy goodness widely available, and cheaper. I would like the fact that it would influence films (some greats could pop up) and maybe some completely throwaway cartoon series for my weekday morning entertainment. What i would dislike is those bandwagon jumpers who are only involved because the fashion magazine said so, the ones who have no idea what Steampunk is, they're just following the crowd. I feel the same way with the people who only read a book after it is a film, and then complain that "it's not the same" as if its the book's fault, or decide that once they have seen the film they no longer need to read the book.
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« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2008, 10:48:35 pm »

I have run across mentions of "steampunk" already in mainstream catalogs; I suspect the mainstreaming of the term and of perhaps some aspects of the aesthetic is imminent.  The item that I'm thinking of was some sort of corsetlike garment, with leather straps and metal buckles on the sides (I couldn't tell whether the metal was brass or not, but it seemed unlikely), described directly as "steampunk" in the accompanying text.  It looked vaguely SP.  I couldn't imagine it on most of the SP women I've met; those ladies would more likely (though not absolutely) wear real corsets.  It looked, in short, like a watered-down SPish item with a few token SP features, marketed to the mainstream.  I suppose it could work as a corset cover, for someone who isn't of the historical-accuracy school of thought.

I saw that, it was in the Pyramid Collection catalogue, which is full of neat things.  They were fairly close to the right aesthetic, but didn't quite hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned--I didn't want it as much as many of the other things in the same catalogue Tongue
Yes, I believe that would be the one.  I used to do my holiday shopping out of there so they will pursue me to the ends of the earth.  Catalogs make good bathroom reading, however, and some of their stuff is kind of neat, so I don't really mind.   Wink

Yeah, you buy something from 'em once and they'll send you a catalogue every month for the rest of your life.  But that's where the ruffled denim jacket with the black lace details that i wear all the time came from, plus my black-outside red-inside velvet cape. 
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« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2008, 11:08:23 pm »

(Have you seen how difficult it is to get a woman out of a corset against her will) Smiley

Sir. Silence[/b]


AGAINST her will??!! It's bloody difficult to get her out  with full cooperation!
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« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2008, 11:32:48 pm »

To quote John Cleese,

"I'm the bloody Pope, I am. I may not know much about art, but I know what I like."

Meaning, who gives a toss about "bandwagon jumpers?" I know what I like about this thing.

As for newcomers to the field getting all exercised about "Is this Steampunk or not?" and swamping the aetherwaves with sad little whinney belly button examinations, it might happen, but it is up to the rest of us to encourage a proper sense of confidence in ones own position and to be open to new readings of the genre/asthetic/lifestyle. (Oh,dear!! I used the L-word)

From what I've seen, those people drawn to steampunk have the right mix of pragmatism and wonder to pull it off.

And another thing.

Any subject at all can be discussed from a steam point of view (though not all of them here) as the mindset is not limited to single issues. Fashion, manners, ecological concerns, social questions etc. are all grist to the mill when it comes to framing a philosophy and therefore suitable topics for debate/decision by those who use this handy "Steampunk" shorthand to describe a part of what they are.

This rant has been brought to you by the elements Cu and Zn.

Dr. Q.

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« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2008, 01:43:30 am »

I don´t go around dressed in a steampunk way. I like wearing jeans, and starched collars sound like a nightmare. However if I did, I would be rather annoyed if people who saw me thought I was just another fashion victim, like they would think when seeing a goth. Or if I went to a showing of 20.000 Leagues Under The Sea and instead of meeting steampunks with who I could have an intelligent conversation, I had to use a machete to chop my way through large crowds of people who bought their clothes at Steampunks´R´us.
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« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2008, 03:28:07 am »

Good evening everyone,

Having just read this thread I must say that I am impressed by discourse that has come so far.
However, after reading and agreeing with several of the posts, from the concern of going mainstream to the sexuallizing of women at young ages to the green steam niche of the movement I must now add my take on this concern.

Which I hope it does go mainstream as a way of life.

Now, let me state I am 46 years old and I am a entrepreneur, a person who loves diy, maker fairs, and everything about Steampunk.  However for me, I  don't look at Steampunk as rebellion or as  a nostalgia craze or a social club movement .  I am counting (hoping) on it as being salvation for a world that just might create a dystopian nightmare future and not even know there doing it.

I think steampunk has a better channce for inclusion in mainstream thought because Steampunk does not have the inherent problems of a built in termination date as some cultural movements in the past have.  Punk could only have existed for those 100 days in the Uk in the seventies due to the political and social situation fo the time, everything after that may have carried the rebellious spirit of punk but it was not that brief bit of true anarchy.  Goth (which I frequented on and off up through the nineties) burned itself out in my opinion by adopting a nihilistic thought process as the millennium approached and then poof...nothing happened and everyone still had credit card debt and mortgages and such coupled with in my opinion the fact the scene became more of similarity then individuality (which by the way the original romantics of the 18th cenetury would have been just puzzled by as it is there Gothic origins that inspired a way of thought we all know as Goth today) and the air kind of let out of the sails of the subculture.  Not to say its dead, just not occupying the spotlight seat it once had in culture.

if I may paraphrase , spindle and change justice Potters i know it when i see it qoute -
I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced as Steampunk . . . but I know it when I see it . . . “

That rallying cry is what will allow us to embrace what each of us needs from the movement and come away the better for it.

We as a race need perspective, time and a renewed ability to critical think about the choices we make in regarding our future. If Steampunk leads one day to the return of LTA ships for passenger travel (see areo company), or a modern interpretation of clipper ships for non perishable trans Atlantic crossings of cargo, or just cool high tech pocket watches instead of iphones I say Hurrah's and well done Punkers!  Not only did it go mainstream, but it changed the world and tell the truth...what grander adventure is there then saving the world.


Respectfully

R. Hellyer

ps
On the thought of the Pyramid Catalog, I must say I find the pyramid catalog clothing of poor seamstress quality but a few niffty designs.
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« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2008, 03:46:58 am »

I don't think it really matters if a bunch of people are investing their time into doing stuff themselves (ala "Steampunk) or not. If your concern is about impostors using the title "Steampunk" to justify their actions, then don't be.

Remember "Goggles don't make the Steampunk, it's Steampunks who makes the goggles"

Or in other words:
People going out and paying money for some cheap mass produced artifact for the only intention of calling themselves "Steampunk'. Will only embarrass themselves when the real deal Steampunk comes along and asks them a question about how they did it. While a real deal Steampunk may/may not have built the device themselves, they have at least taken the time to understand the work as well as the complexities of how it could be made.

So mainstream, or behind the scenes. IF your Steampunk, you're Steampunk no matter what. You can like what you like regardless if it's mainstream, cool, the shizz-nizz, or whatever.
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« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2008, 03:54:03 am »

On the subject of youths getting into steampunk in order to think they're "rebellious" little sheep....

If writing properly, having creativity, being polite, dressing in a manner that does not suggest questionable things about one's morals, and celebrating intelligence and ingenuity is "rebellious," then by golly, I've been quite the rebel for years! This is news to me. I had no idea that I was such a rebellious little hellion!

Perhaps it wouldn't be such a bad thing for this to catch on. It's practically the exact opposite of some of the movements that are popular right now.... It might be good for some youths.
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« Reply #45 on: July 04, 2008, 03:56:10 am »

I always thought of Steampunk more as an ideal than a fashion or movement.

What draws me to Steampunk is that it is idealistic, unconventional, and even a bit impractical. Steampunk signifies a drive for knowledge and desire for a unique culture centered around creativity, individualism, intelligence, and a general wellbeing for all. Obviously, I paint Steampunk in optimistic colors -- as I said, I'm idealistic, and I like Steampunk for that.

Steampunk is unconventional. Steampunk is impractical -- but only for the sake of art. Steampunk is rebellious in a way, but not in a 'rebellious' way that Punk, Goth, or Anarchists are -- which are taken by some to be a sort of 'rude gesture' at society. Steampunk isn't rebellious in a way that we're trying to 'throw off societies shackles' or that we 'don't give a damn.' Steampunk celebrates human ingenuity. In a way, Steampunk is rebellious because it's almost revolutionary.

I may be waxing poetic here, but I think most of all this thread proves that Steampunk most of all celebrates creativity and individualism -- simply because we refuse to make rules. We refuse to tell others how to be and act. That is an ideal I'd wish would become more mainstream, anyday.

Poetics aside. I'm fine where Steampunk is now -- well known enough that we're receiving novels, stories, music, and movies based on the genre. But small enough that we can stay true to our roots and origins. But I'm fine whereever Steampunk goes -- I'm confindent enough with myself that I don't require to know if I'm "in or out."

Quote
"Goggles don't make the Steampunk, it's Steampunks who makes the goggles"

I LOVE this quote! Fantastic.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 03:59:20 am by outward » Logged
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« Reply #46 on: July 04, 2008, 08:08:20 am »

I don´t go around dressed in a steampunk way. I like wearing jeans, and starched collars sound like a nightmare. However if I did, I would be rather annoyed if people who saw me thought I was just another fashion victim, like they would think when seeing a goth. Or if I went to a showing of 20.000 Leagues Under The Sea and instead of meeting steampunks with who I could have an intelligent conversation, I had to use a machete to chop my way through large crowds of people who bought their clothes at Steampunks´R´us.

on a related note, there's a movie of Journey to the Center of the Earth with nicholas cage coming out soon. Are we excited, or horrified? (or both?)
edit: sorry, I meant Brendan Fraser.  Thanks digitalboredom. 

I kinda like that people are starting to see me and think "steampunk" instead of seeing me and thinking "wtf?"  No one's had anything bad to say about it, but I do get a lot of questions-- ("Steampunk? I keep hearing about that. What is it?")


Quote
"Goggles don't make the Steampunk, it's Steampunks who makes the goggles"

I LOVE this quote! Fantastic.

Agreed, that's an excellent way of putting it. However, I'm detecting a growing trend here of "if you made it yourself you're steampunk, if you bought it you're a commercial poser" (implied, not stated outright, of course, we wouldnt' be that rude.)  You have to have some sympathy for those in our community who have little skill at making things, or are specialized in our making of things. I, for instance, am good at making jewelry, but all my attempts at goggles have come out not good enough to wear, so I still wear my military surplus goggles instead.  And I can't really sew, so all my clothes are found/assembled from pieces found in thrift stores and (occaisionally) mainstream stores.   I definitely agree with the sentiment that making things rather than buying them=good, but  no one can make everything they wear. Or rather, some people probably can and I have an insane of amount for respect for them, but they are, on the whole, rather rare. 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 08:06:13 pm by KatarinaNavane » Logged
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« Reply #47 on: July 04, 2008, 09:41:56 am »

I hope that the "discovery" of steampunk doesn't lead to lovely,old things being cannibilized and sold piecemeal for outrageous sums.

I hope steamy environs don't become inaccessible to ordinary folk and that the rare SP items found in craft and fabric shops don't vanish just to be replaced by hordes of schlock-offs.

I remember how the various "country" fads   (like Shabby Chic) and  repurposing trends (such as  book alteration ) were embraced by people more interested in fads and money than respect for vintage items.

The "mainstream" includes people who go to the history section of their library and slice out pages to decoupage on a pocketbook.

They might carry the purse twice before it is set aside and allowed to deteriorate.

That is NOT who we are.

If you don't think a movement can get co-opted by the wrong sort,ask Nathan Bedford Forrest.

Some folks in Pulaski,Tn.  formed a group to help alleviate  problems during Reconstruction.

They took food and clothes to the needy,admonished people who abused their animals or family and were generally good neighbors.

Some decided to become "Batman" or "Zorro" type vigilantes against unscrupulous carpetbaggers and copperheads.

The next thing folks knew, the sheet-clad "haints" were terrorizing people of color or anyone  they disliked or wanted to intimidate.

The results of such assaults frequently fattened the wallets of the perpetrators.

The people who had wanted to rebuild and curb chaos were now identified with the worst examples of ignorance and oppression.

I admit that the KKK and their ilk are an extreme example but they remind us that the folks who truly belong to a group need to hold fast and repudiate those who  would take the organization in any wrong direction.

Otherwise,their goals founder and their identity is overshadowed by those who are,at best,non-entities and,at worst,abominations.
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« Reply #48 on: July 04, 2008, 10:04:55 am »

Is this a good or a bad thing for the culture?
"Is it Steampunk or not?"
I don't really care what other people think is steampunk or not or what tribulations they have themselves, I know what my slant on steampunk is and I like it no matter how popular but I think the use of the word "mainsteam" is a little over-the-top.
Untill there are people walking outside my house in top hats, goggles and corsets and there are steampunk musicians topping the charts, it's not mainstream.
Currently there are gangs of head-shaven youths wearing "track-suits" and thier females in clothes like I've seen on so many magazine covers.
Mainstream? No.
Much more popular than it was? Yes.

Popularity = Good or bad?
I don't really care how popular it is as long as people leave me alone except to do occasional nice things for me or share steampunk contrivances and contraptions, you know; the general things on this forum Smiley
It might be good, more steampunk things around, maybe the facades of modern buildings would be given steampunk accoutrements, that would be pleasing to me Smiley

By the by:
Remember "Goggles don't make the Steampunk, it's Steampunks who makes the goggles"
Thats brilliant, it should be on the front page Grin Anyone going to add it to thier signature yet? Wink
« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 10:08:35 am by JingleJoe » Logged

Green Dungeon Alchemist Laboratories
Providing weird sound contraptions and time machines since 2064.
Jaqhama
Snr. Officer
****
Australia Australia


Jet-biking across the multiverse


« Reply #49 on: July 04, 2008, 10:43:29 am »

Steampunk and mainstream...

For those who embrace any of the myrid of things that makes one a Steampunk person...going trendy and mainstream for a couple of months won't be a bother I'm sure.
Mainstream and trendy arrives and passes with amazing rapidity.

Look at Harley's
For years people who rode Harley's (and most other bikes) were looked at somewhat oddly.
Loud, dangerous, unsocialable things motorcycles were.
Not that long ago Harley's and other bikes became 'popular'...the Harley company capitialised on this and started producing an entire universe of products with HD emblazoned on them.

Plenty of other motorcycle companies and manufacturers followed suit.

But before Harley's were trendy there was the guy in the faded jeans and plain black leather jacket, jamming about to his own tune.
And today...the same rider is still wearing his faded jeans and that same jacket...and he's still jamming along to his own tune.
He doesn't want and doesn't need that universe of HD stuff. He never bought into the whole 'fad' of the HD myth. He's just a guy on a bike. He was there before the 'fads'. He's still there now. He's still riding the bike he's always had and he's still dressing the way he always did.

What I'm saying is that one doesn't have to be part of media/mainstream trendy/commercial fads.
Just keep on doing what you're doing, the way you're doing it.

The 'fad' will pass and you'll still be here.

Cheers: Jaq.
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