The Steampunk/Dieselpunk overlap – some thoughts.

Over at the Forum, discussion there on the creation of a Dieselpunk sub-board, got me thinking that there is (from my point of view as a retired railroader with 36 years in service) that there is a lot of potential for overlap and cross pollination between Steampunk and Dieselpunk.. I am old enough to remember the end days of the transition from steam to diesel power on the railroads and looking through my photo archives can find plenty examples of wonderful steam power in the Dieselpunk era.
Steam power kept quietly working away, eventually going “behind the scenes”. As an example, there was a 12,000 HP triple expansion steam engine powering a rolling mill in Britain, until 1973, where its last job was rolling out steel plate for a nuclear reactor containment vessel.
As another example, our beloved Steampunk airships didn’t really hit mainstream until after 1918, with even what is considered the “Golden Age” of airships being the early 1900’s, which takes them out of the Victorian era and plants them firmly into the Edwardian.
In a nutshell, while I started out as a Steampunk, (I appreciate and enjoy Victorian history and culture, but really am a steam power fan first), I also seem to be a bit of a closet Dieselpunk by the definition generally agreed on. I am a sucker for Art Deco, and I enjoy the 1920-1950’s cultural era (heck, I can remember the late 1950s) just as much. I”d venture to say that the era I identify with most would be the inter-war era of the 1930’s, as portrayed particularly in the “Poirot” television series. Who can argue with such classic examples of styling as the de Havilland Dragon Rapide, or a Dreyfuss J3-A Hudson?
I think the overlap might be a very interesting thing.  I’m sure this will cause some controversy, but don’t worry, BG will remain Steampunk, though perhaps with some occasional wanderings.. Thoughts?

  • Sky Pirate Brewer
    Leather seats? That's not utilitarian! The Ford Tri-Motor had wicker seats. See:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6...

    Sky Pirate Brewer
  • The_Hustler
    Just because it's utilitarian doesn't mean it can't be comfortable and stylish. Besides - wicker can break with lots of use, whilst leather just gets more comfortable.
  • The_Hustler
    People always seem to need to categorise things - there used to be Rock and Roll, and now there's hundreds of sub divisions. For me (having only just got into Steampunk) I feel it is more of a catch-all title for alternative-history/technology - the title doesn't say Victorian or Edwardian.
    And I agree about the de Havilland Dragon Rapide - it was the first ever plane I flew on in 1979 (7 years old) and the interior is (to my mind) similar to the utilitarian end of the Steampunk spectrum. Designed for function over form. Leather chairs and slide-open windows if you get too hot :)
    http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/875/2...
  • Rooksmoor
    Both steampunk, dieselpunk and before them cyberpunk, played around with 'real' history/future anyway. Yes, large-scale dirigibles did not come until the 1910s, the large bombing Zeppelins of the First World War almost killed my great aunt, but an aspect of steampunk is that it is anachronistic and takes back technology from its true period to an earlier one, just as Jules Verne took what he anticipated would be invented and inserted it into his own times. In my stories I generally have inventions which existed but send them back 20-40 years, usually into the mid-Victorian period, to see their impact on that earlier period and its society.

    The UK is a country which has always had anachronisms. In the 1960s you could easily travel on an electric train, a diesel train and a steam train on a single long journey. Conversely, you could take electric trains from Munich into the Alps before the First World War. Often technology is like the human species and you have Neanderthals still living alongside Cro Magnon man. Look at how many houses in the UK still have coal fires when others have electricity, oil or gas and an increasing number are using solar panel and in Southampton even geo-thermal power. Some of this technology would be commonplace to a person of 1950 whereas others would have been 'science fiction'.

    I think one characteristic of steampunk and dieselpunk fans is our interest in the neanderthals of technology. This species of human was supposedly more sensitive and could possibly have become the dominant human species, but it died out. We are interested in things like that for technology and from that what sort of society would have come about if that technology had become dominant. AC current almost lost out to DC current; we could have had Betamax as the dominant video form over VHS, very often fashion or good public relations rather than efficiency means that one technology wins out over another. It is up to us to think about what things would have looked like if we had gone up a different path in technology's evolution and then put into the context that we find it most thought-provoking to be set in, whether that is 1780, 1860, 1920 or 1955 or even now.
  • Arael
    Now I can't get the Indiana Jones theme out of my head >_<
  • Crimson
    So far as pure time periods go it's impossible to clearly classify I would think. Many elements of traditional steam power, Diesel power and electric power existed side by side from the late 1800's up into the 1970's from what I've seen and read. I would be all for a separate subforum for "Dieselpunk" in that the primary difference I've noted between the genre's ( in a broad sense at any rate ) is a cleanliness and ornateness VS a grittiness and functional form devoid of aesthetics. The steampunk robot is the Metropolis Gynoid whereas the Dieselpunk robot is closer to a T-800.
  • edwardpearse
    Frankly Dieselpunk is just what kids that don't know any better are calling PULP. Today anyone with an alternate history concept slaps a "-punk" on the end of it as if it somehow makes it better. I was told of someone seeing "WWIIpunk" this evening. No I'm not making this up.
  • J Lewis
    Well I think it is wrong to put people into categories. Like you I love the 1920's & 30's and I like some of the inventions /look of the Georgian and Edwardian periods. My take on Steampunk which will cause controversy is taking the best bits and bringing them into the present with a modern take on them (e.g. using old typewriter parts to make a lap top!) .....so If I have to be in a category then I guess that makes me a "Past Punker"!!!
  • J Lewis
    Why on earth should we be be forced into categories. my take on Steampunk which will probably get me into trouble is not just Victorian but taking the best bits of our past and utilising them. It wasn't just Victorians who had some aesthetic items... and like you I love 1920's & 30's and I love some parts of the Georgian and Edwardian times so perhaps I am not Steampunk I am literally "Past Punk" which I think incorporates all those of us with a love for the fabulous inventions of the past no matter what the era!!
  • darkshines
    I adore both, I tend to read more Victorian literature and know more about the politics, but dress more 1920s/30s and adore music of the time. I guess my everyday, run of the mill lifestyle is 1920s, and then I "dress up" steampunk. There, I said it.

    -darkshines
  • SPBrewer
    I would rather see two sites, one for Steampunk and one for Dieselpunk. I like both, but as it , too many Dieselpunk iterms are moving into the Steampunk world. For example, "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow " is ofter found on Steampunk movie lists, but it's more of a Dieselpunk movie. And while I like "The Rocketter" it's not Steampunk either. I don't think it's taking categorization too far. I say it's a step that needs to be taken.

    SPBrewer
  • Eadwacer
    If you want to extend your discussion to 'atom punk', there's a wonderful old book (well, 1988) called "Steam Bird", by Hilbert Schenck. It's about a nuclear powered bomber, flown by a group of steam enthusiasts. The tech details are reasonably accurate, the enthusiasts have their steam history down, and the humor is...bearable.
  • austin
    Categorization is a great and wonderful thing but people always want to take it too far.

    I consider myself to be a retrofuturist, encompassing Victoriana, steampunk, clockpunk, dieselpunk, cyberpunk and any number of -punks and -isms besides.
  • Steamstein
    Dieselpunk is fine too!
  • Patron Vectras
    Steampunk and Dieselpunk play nice.
    "Closet Dieselpunk" isn't a viable term, I think, because the two are so close. A person's persona could emphasize one or the other, but the transition between the two genres is just as beautiful as the wars between the two eras were ugly.
    A Dieselpunk forum section, you say?
  • oldfool
    I believe you have it right. What we think of as dieselpunk would have been thought outrageously futuristic in early Victorian times. I am a child of the dieselpunk era and I love it but I am fascinated with steam. Steam engines were still pulling trains when I was a toddler. I would be the slash mark in steampunk/dieselpunk.
  • guest
    I actually agree with you. These people on your forum that want to split hairs and put everybody into a box can get a bit silly. Why cant we all agree to just agree to enjoy cool old stuff and leave it at that?
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